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SMazzurco
09-28-2010, 11:34 AM
Ok so there is Bryan Fury Earth Throw Beats...

There is Ready for Lunch Earth Marius Garius...

King had his Path (of the master) up the earthen trail that was pretty good...

Anyone running any other earth decks?

What are some other tricks that the ol' majestic mountain has hiding up her sleeve?

Anyone favorite attack in earth? (Please no Mark of the Jotun)

You got siggy stuff for some control, astraroth for damage pump, ragnar's support for more dmg pump, and rashotep for a lil more control...

And lets not forget FFG's "wtf" (wow, that's fantastic!) moment when they printed Strange Fashion with a little mountain on it.

Earth has always been the "rugged mountain defense" symbol and even though good may outweigh it with damage reduction it is still up there as far as able to take a beating is concerned.

Everyone knows how good Fire, Good, Chaos, Death, Void, Life, Air, All, and even Order are.
Water sucks. Evil sucks.

Now let's discuss Earth!

SMazzurco
09-28-2010, 11:48 AM
Conversation piece : Off earth, whats your favorite attack to lead into a double grounder beta?

Big damage Bear Fang to bait the block? Reborn basher to commit that Lawl of the Land (or other Evil foundation)? Rising Hilt for the low difficulty?

Also anyone who says "8 damage mark of the beast" gets slapped

Bloodrunstrue
09-28-2010, 12:03 PM
Conversation piece : Off earth, whats your favorite attack to lead into a double grounder beta?

Big damage Bear Fang to bait the block? Reborn basher to commit that Lawl of the Land (or other Evil foundation)? Rising Hilt for the low difficulty?

Also anyone who says "8 damage mark of the beast" gets slapped

Into beta I like to use either hilt for the difficulty or rising celtis. Though Basher is also a solid idea too.

As far as Earth Is concerned it has always been my second favourite symbol, however the decks you can build are all fairly similar in design, they just go massive damage fast or control it then make huge damage if you dont die (Which you likely will as fire is kinda awesome I hear.)

Thanks
Bloodrunstrue

brislove
09-30-2010, 07:17 PM
Ok so there is Bryan Fury Earth Throw Beats...

There is Ready for Lunch Earth Marius Garius...

King had his Path (of the master) up the earthen trail that was pretty good...

Anyone running any other earth decks?

What are some other tricks that the ol' majestic mountain has hiding up her sleeve?

Anyone favorite attack in earth? (Please no Mark of the Jotun)

You got siggy stuff for some control, astraroth for damage pump, ragnar's support for more dmg pump, and rashotep for a lil more control...

And lets not forget FFG's "wtf" (wow, that's fantastic!) moment when they printed Strange Fashion with a little mountain on it.

Earth has always been the "rugged mountain defense" symbol and even though good may outweigh it with damage reduction it is still up there as far as able to take a beating is concerned.

Everyone knows how good Fire, Good, Chaos, Death, Void, Life, Air, All, and even Order are.
Water sucks. Evil sucks.

Now let's discuss Earth!

wait, void and all are good? and order is an afterthought? you make me sad sir :(

Earth is among the best symbols in the game because it has all the answers.

some of the top walling cards (Strange fashion, Paid to protect, undisputed ruler) and some of the top damage foundations (brooding unstoppable warrior, hungry for battle, enraged golem)

Shinguyi
09-30-2010, 07:27 PM
Closest thing to Earth I play is in Legacy and its Leona. In Extended I play Leona more by Fire-Earth hybrid.

With potential stuff Earth has and can do, it truly does have some of the best cards overall.

Don't forget "Torn hero" brislove. "Strength of the Mountain" was a very nifty card as well.

JinKazama
09-30-2010, 08:06 PM
wait, void and all are good? and order is an afterthought? you make me sad sir

Earth is among the best symbols in the game because it has all the answers.

some of the top walling cards (Strange fashion, Paid to protect, undisputed ruler) and some of the top damage foundations (brooding unstoppable warrior, hungry for battle, enraged golem)

lol I was thinkin this, I just didn't post
all is good though

SMazzurco
10-01-2010, 07:20 AM
wait, void and all are good? and order is an afterthought? you make me sad sir :(

Earth is among the best symbols in the game because it has all the answers.

some of the top walling cards (Strange fashion, Paid to protect, undisputed ruler) and some of the top damage foundations (brooding unstoppable warrior, hungry for battle, enraged golem)

Void has king's throws, nina's support, PotE, rasho's support, P2P, Cervy stuff (ok not much there lol) etc. I have played quite a few void throw decks that are pretty strong.

All is pretty strong too. Yun Seong off all is pretty damn good.

Order i want to be good, but honestly right now it is missing a few key pieces. Big attacks and damage being one of them. Besides hammer/Turn thruster where does order's damage come from? And remember, if you say over the shoulder with pauls support then they have all as well

JinKazama
10-01-2010, 07:39 AM
I think order is better than void.
void nina may work but how many characters work well with cotam?
Although most the good order cards have all on them its still a better symbol than void atm, in my opinion.

SMazzurco
10-01-2010, 07:45 AM
ok i'll give you that, its a better all around symbol.
But an order deck is just a All deck with an identity crisis.

ALL > ORDER > VOID

People say earth is good, but did it top 8? ( it could of, i am seriously asking)

Earth seems like it is "good", but for one reason or another just seems "lacking".

So surprised, this thread is already derailing into a "this symbol is better than that symbol" instead of a discussion thread, lawl

JinKazama
10-01-2010, 08:21 AM
I was just stating an opinion.
Earth is good but how many characters can really run earth well?
King, Ragnar,Siegfried, ( Rashotep is more of a side board character) ( Bryan Fury is much better of evil).
The character pool for earth seems somewhat limited n comparison to Life, Fire, & Air.
There don't seem to be too many characters with chaos but some of the characters with a character related theme work really well with its current pool.
Iv'e never seen a standard death deck win in a tourney, I think this could also be due to synergy of the card pool with the characters (no one mention Kishiri).
Earth seems to be just really underrated, but it has allot of everything except card advantage and momentum gen which it shouldn't have.

RockStar
10-01-2010, 08:30 AM
One of the things Earth lacks at the moment, but that it also has traditionally lacked, is card draw. I honestly can't think of any cards in Standard that draws cards with Earth, of course it is way early for me, too. Does Bloodline Rebellion have Earth? Hmm...Even if it did, one card that can draw you a single card does not make the case that Earth can draw.

King's ability to play a Throw when he isn't holding one in hand is the best draw-esque mechanic that Earth has right now, imo.

So, Earth is somewhat reliant upon drawing into the right cards at the start of their turn. And, yeah, only 6hs characters. :/

ATLDrew
10-01-2010, 10:24 AM
@ Smazzurco - Yeah King played by John Cain top 8'd at Worlds this year.

Being an avid Earth (mostly King) player I will be the first to tell you how unexciting the symbol is as a whole. No card draw, situational negation, little utility in their attack base, and really only 1 solid character (King) make the symbol incredibly lackluster. Sure it can protect all of its foundations and pump damage pretty well, but throws are overcosted and all get turned off by Strange Fashion (a HUGE freaking mistake printing this card imho). Like who cards if i can't stun you out if you have nothing i care about stunning? Earth's foundations are offensive in nature or really weird reduction/control cards that are inconsistent anyways. I can play a beatdown strategy but all of my good character are 6 hs with no card draw (except King obviously). I can try to play a slow control game, but since I can't abuse Paid to Protect since i dont have the card draw that void and fire do I can't really keep my life total high enough to race like fire or chaos decks. Case and point, right now it feels like if you aren't playing King as the frontman of your Earth build, it's probably not going to win. Now people will say "well my Siggy deck can kill on turn 2" or "my Yi Shan deck can control the game just fine." Realistically though, justify to me why you should play Siggy in Earth versus his other 2 symbols. Or why should you play Yi Shan... well, at all.

SMazzurco
10-01-2010, 10:28 AM
as far as strange fashion, earth has Valued but not Trusted and Dead for 1k Years

tannerface
10-02-2010, 01:56 AM
@ Smazzurco - Yeah King played by John Cain top 8'd at Worlds this year.

Being an avid Earth (mostly King) player I will be the first to tell you how unexciting the symbol is as a whole. No card draw, situational negation, little utility in their attack base, and really only 1 solid character (King) make the symbol incredibly lackluster. Sure it can protect all of its foundations and pump damage pretty well, but throws are overcosted and all get turned off by Strange Fashion (a HUGE freaking mistake printing this card imho). Like who cards if i can't stun you out if you have nothing i care about stunning? Earth's foundations are offensive in nature or really weird reduction/control cards that are inconsistent anyways. I can play a beatdown strategy but all of my good character are 6 hs with no card draw (except King obviously). I can try to play a slow control game, but since I can't abuse Paid to Protect since i dont have the card draw that void and fire do I can't really keep my life total high enough to race like fire or chaos decks. Case and point, right now it feels like if you aren't playing King as the frontman of your Earth build, it's probably not going to win. Now people will say "well my Siggy deck can kill on turn 2" or "my Yi Shan deck can control the game just fine." Realistically though, justify to me why you should play Siggy in Earth versus his other 2 symbols. Or why should you play Yi Shan... well, at all.
I am totally with you on this. I've gone over every earth character and there is just no reason not to play king. He beats out all the current earth characters for the earth symbol, that is to say he is the best earth character not the best off earth, which is another debate all together.

Bloodrunstrue
10-02-2010, 12:27 PM
I am totally with you on this. I've gone over every earth character and there is just no reason not to play king. He beats out all the current earth characters for the earth symbol, that is to say he is the best earth character not the best off earth, which is another debate all together.

Indeed, and even then I actually find King to be more effective off of Good.

Despite this though I'm aware that most of us believe that Earth is a mid tier symbol, does this discusiion not highlight the possibility of Earth being low tier?


I wonder how much suppory it will get from Red Horizon

Cass
10-03-2010, 11:51 AM
I try to make one deck per symbol, no more.

I have for a long time an Astrid Fire, which won me the Ontario championship, then a Rashotep Earth, which was always average... but recently, i made a Void Lizardman out of nowhere, and it became a close second to my Astrid.

If Fire is the best symbol because of its access to the largest card pool, then to my opinion Void is second, then Life. Earth and All follow. Expect Water to climb up that ladder with Xiangua and Amy stuff + new set.

My Decks right now, in order of strengt :

Astrid Fire - Void Lizardman - Life Mitsurugi - Chaos Cervantes - Earth Rashotep - Air Temujin

currently making :

Order Yoshimitsu - Life Sophitia - All Algol - Evil Bryan Fury - Chaos Taki

Hatman
10-03-2010, 02:51 PM
Indeed, and even then I actually find King to be more effective off of Good.
I honestly do not get what throw you gain off of Good that you do not have off of Earth.

Cass
10-03-2010, 06:32 PM
I honestly do not get what throw you gain off of Good that you do not have off of Earth.

It's not about the attacks, but the foundations you get off Good.

Hatman
10-03-2010, 07:05 PM
It's not about the attacks, but the foundations you get off Good.

dual-symbol tiem.

B-Rad
10-03-2010, 08:54 PM
I honestly do not get what throw you gain off of Good that you do not have off of Earth.

I played Good King today and when it was on, it won it's games fairly easily. In the end I only ran six throws (three Cobra Twist and three Half Nelsons), followed with three Mark of the Beast and proceeded to stomp all over Nehtali and Jin all day long. Try it out, it's great.

Hatman
10-03-2010, 09:01 PM
I played Good King today and when it was on, it won it's games fairly easily. In the end I only ran six throws (three Cobra Twist and three Half Nelsons), followed with three Mark of the Beast and proceeded to stomp all over Nehtali and Jin all day long. Try it out, it's great.

It remains a deck with 9 attacks, something I absolutely abhor and turns me off the game more than hard control.

B-Rad
10-03-2010, 09:12 PM
Then throw in another jank set of attacks or two like Hilt Impacts or Konvict Kicks.

Hatman
10-03-2010, 09:19 PM
Then throw in another jank set of attacks or two like Hilt Impacts or Konvict Kicks.

You don't toss in Konvict Kicks if you don't want to go for Double Face Kick.

I'm not saying the deck isn't good - your build of the deck is likely a very good candidate. I may not like a lot of things which may prevent me from ever playing certain decks, but I'm not about to gimp a deck just because "I wanna play it lol".

We'll see what the horizon brings.

Yoko Charming Fox
10-03-2010, 10:23 PM
wait, void and all are good? and order is an afterthought? you make me sad sir :(

Earth is among the best symbols in the game because it has all the answers.

some of the top walling cards (Strange fashion, Paid to protect, undisputed ruler) and some of the top damage foundations (brooding unstoppable warrior, hungry for battle, enraged golem)

To bad enraged golem can only be used on a fire attack, so you have to either just use it on your Ragnar and Astroth attacks stuff or go without, which isn't to bad, but I don't think Evil and Earth really needed that restriction on them.

Yoko Charming Fox
10-03-2010, 10:40 PM
It remains a deck with 9 attacks, something I absolutely abhor and turns me off the game more than hard control.

Just wondering, but how many attack need to be in a deck for you not to abhor it? Because when you have King's ability to net you a throw each turn, 9 attack doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

Hatman
10-04-2010, 10:18 AM
Just wondering, but how many attack need to be in a deck for you not to abhor it? Because when you have King's ability to net you a throw each turn, 9 attack doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

12 is the lowest I'll go (and the King deck I'm working on will probably have that amount of attacks).

The problem is one of the biggest flaws in UFS (very personal opinion) rather than a Earth problem.

ARMed_PIrate
10-05-2010, 03:12 PM
Tangent:

Why don't we have a format where a certain number of attacks (say, 24) are required? Would that not be interesting?

Hatman
10-05-2010, 03:14 PM
Tangent:

Why don't we have a format where a certain number of attacks (say, 24) are required? Would that not be interesting?

Wouldn't work - such a format advantages characters beyond what the rules of the game currently does. Like, say, Ivy. What we need is a reason to play more attacks over foundations, plain and simple.

Zues9105
10-05-2010, 07:44 PM
Order has Odins wrath And Nimbus for big damage plus good control in cursed blood law of the land and Amy's Support

tannerface
10-05-2010, 07:52 PM
Tangent:

Why don't we have a format where a certain number of attacks (say, 24) are required? Would that not be interesting? Isn't that what 10x6 is essentially?

Shinguyi
10-05-2010, 07:56 PM
The problem with Earth and Order is that they don't do chemistry with the cards released so far. When your read them you think "Wow, awesome!" and when you see them being played you get turned off. ^^;
For example, *Seth* was awesome, but he couldn't do very well because the format was too fast. the cards were awesome and proved useful, but well... didn't work as planned.

These past few sets have been too Fire loving. Its time other symbols got more love.

Hatman
10-05-2010, 09:01 PM
The problem with Earth and Order is that they don't do chemistry with the cards released so far. When your read them you think "Wow, awesome!" and when you see them being played you get turned off. ^^;
For example, *Seth* was awesome, but he couldn't do very well because the format was too fast. the cards were awesome and proved useful, but well... didn't work as planned.

These past few sets have been too Fire loving. Its time other symbols got more love.

Earth has too much redundancy and is too limited because of it - I mean, sure, blanking stuff is fun, but when that's all you do?

Probably why I built King with a Void splash.