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SMazzurco
10-06-2010, 09:21 AM
First, give us a search function, cause i am sure this has been asked before, lol.

Does KA stop kazuya if no assets are in play?

Shinguyi
10-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Yes, it can. The condition for it is that your opponent plays an ability that could destroy assets. The effects then become negating that ability, and you destroying an asset.

The effect resolves as much as it can, and even if there is no asset in play it will still negate Kazuya's Form. If it was worded as "Destroy one asset. Then, negate that ability" (or something along those lines) then it couldn't.

SMazzurco
10-06-2010, 09:55 AM
Yes, it can. The condition for it is that your opponent plays an ability that could destroy assets. The effects then become negating that ability, and you destroying an asset.

The effect resolves as much as it can, and even if there is no asset in play it will still negate Kazuya's Form. If it was worded as "Destroy one asset. Then, negate that ability" (or something along those lines) then it couldn't.

I mean with no assets in play, kazuya himself cannot "destroy an asset".

Amy's was different because even if the effect was going to be used for damage reduction, you COULD commit a card (considering your opponent had one in their staging area)

Can you point to something in the AGR?

Shinguyi
10-06-2010, 11:22 AM
These are the closest things I found out about it:

2.9.0.2 Played abilities are written as [Ability Type Abbreviation] [Cost]: [Game Effect of Ability]. (See 2.12 Costs and 2.13 Effects for more information.)

2.12 Costs
When playing a card, or an ability, the cost is indicated between the ability type and colon (i.e., F Commit:,
or F(5+): )
2.12.1 Costs are not optional.
2.12.2 Costs may only be paid using cards controlled by the player wishing to play the ability.
2.12.3 If a part of a cost is to commit foundations, you may use your character card as a foundation card to pay these costs.
2.12.4 A player may not pay more for a cost than they are required

Reading regarding the costs we can make out that to play Killer Android, an Asset does not have to be in play since its not in the cost. Now resolving Killer Android:

2.13 Effects
When playing/activating a card or an ability, the effect is everything after the colon. (i.e., E: Draw 2 cards)
2.13.3 If effects are connected together by the wording “and then”, “then”, or sentences starting with the wording “Then,” these effects are linked to the effect before them. If the first effect cannot be completed in its entirety, then the linked effect will not happen.
2.13.4 After an ability is played, it will resolve as much of itself as it can. (See 8.1 Playing a card from hand, for more information on playing cards and abilities.)

These are the Key rules I found onto why Killer Android shuts down Kazuya's F without having an Asset in play.

Only part I am a bit confused and could create a debate is this one:
2.13.7A To be able to resolve an effect, it must have a valid target.

Killer Android has two possible targets when it resolves, which is the ability which destroys an asset and the asset you destroy. Since the ability that destroys an asset is a valid target, part of the effect resolves and since you resolve as much of the effect as possible, there doesn't need to be an asset to destroy by Killer Android to resolve.

Here is another part which could suggest this:
8.1.4 A card is considered played after it has been declared and any costs paid, but before its
effect resolves.
8.1.4.1 If the successfully played card generated an effect, it will resolve as much of
itself as it can.

Guess its all up to Tagrineth for the last word on it.

SMazzurco
10-06-2010, 12:14 PM
My gripe is more on the R of killer android

"R: After your opponent plays an ability that destroys an asset"

If you have NO asset in play, then Kazuya's form does not destroy an asset. It is an ability that MAY destroy an asset, or CAN destroy an asset.

I think its purely interpretation...and just looking for an official "nats" ruling...and better yet, a reason why.

Hayamachop
10-06-2010, 12:22 PM
You dont destroy your own assets btw, you remove it from game. only one side has valid targets.

SMazzurco
10-06-2010, 12:58 PM
You dont destroy your own assets btw, you remove it from game. only one side has valid targets.

not sure what this is in reference today. In my above post (#5) i was saying my opponent was kazuya.

Also per JR (i thought it was Wray not Ray but whatever lol) he said Hata ruled with no assets in play on the "non-kazuya" side, that KA can NOT stop kazuya...can we get an official?

jason
10-06-2010, 01:11 PM
Looking into it.

SMazzurco
10-06-2010, 01:57 PM
FWIW, apparantly hata ruled that it did require an asset in the "non kazuya" staging area...

Of course it is your game now and i am saying that on 3rd person hear say

jason
10-06-2010, 02:07 PM
Because Killer Android is responding to the Playing of the ability, it does not matter if there is an asset in play or not. It will be canceled.

I also am unaware of Hata ruling that way, since it was designed to work against Kazuya in play test.

Tagrineth
10-06-2010, 05:54 PM
I'm leaning toward the requires-an-asset thing as hearsay, because I remember no such ruling and hey... you all know me.