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SMazzurco
11-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Ok, here R says to play the face down card as a reversal.
This means you CANNOT play a "reversal" as a reversal then, correct?

In other words do something like block with Chi Disruptor, then reversal with Chi Disruptor as well as here R

Thanks

NJBrock22
11-15-2010, 11:46 AM
the only way you'd be able to play an attack as a reversal twice is if a card's text or ability would SPECIFICALLY Allow it, see also Sakura3 and Chun-Li4 for examples. But if you were just to play an attack that has the [reversal] keyword per another effect as another attack durring their turn i'd assume you'd be able to do it, but sticking with Dariya, yeah you're playing an attack AS a reversal, and only ONE (attack as a) Reversal per block trigger.

N.J.

SMazzurco
11-15-2010, 11:53 AM
I'm gonna break this bellydancer one way or another...i got a rough draft of her now but sad thing is the deck is just screaming for me to switch it to Jon Herr

Trip Se7ens
11-15-2010, 12:18 PM
I'll scream at you now Sal, SWITCH IT TO JON HERR!

SMazzurco
11-15-2010, 12:54 PM
I'll scream at you now Sal, SWITCH IT TO JON HERR!

ya i have found stupid things he can do.

I was thinking about doing a toothless dariya deck utilizing her R with a secondary mill condition, but there is like nothing out there that causes mill...I could just build a huge deck and use WW Warriors (or comics, always get them mixed up, the one thats one-for-one discard removal)

Tagrineth
11-15-2010, 02:30 PM
Correct, no double reversals unless specified. You could try The Peaceful Way, though, which just "plays a Reversal".

SMazzurco
11-15-2010, 04:28 PM
Correct, no double reversals unless specified. You could try The Peaceful Way, though, which just "plays a Reversal".

Already got it in there (see my other dariya topic, lol).

Shinguyi
11-15-2010, 05:48 PM
the only way you'd be able to play an attack as a reversal twice is if a card's text or ability would SPECIFICALLY Allow it, see also Sakura3 and Chun-Li4 for examples. But if you were just to play an attack that has the [reversal] keyword per another effect as another attack durring their turn i'd assume you'd be able to do it, but sticking with Dariya, yeah you're playing an attack AS a reversal, and only ONE (attack as a) Reversal per block trigger.

N.J.

Problem lies that you may actually be able to. In the AGR, it stops you from doing so when you play the Reversal Keyword, not an attack as a Reversal. But I guess that's just me.

2.14.2.7 Reversal
Reversal: (Response) - R Reveal this card from your hand: After an opponent’s
attack has resolved, if a player with this card successfully blocked the attack, he
may immediately attempt to play this attack from his hand, proceeding as if he
played a regular attack. Once this attack has resolved, his opponent continues
with his Combat Phase. A player may only attempt to play one Reversal per
attack. <---Part of the ability, which imply for you not be able to play anymore attacks as a Reversal the ability must be played.

2.14.2.7.1 The Reversal keyword is a played ability.
2.14.2.7.2 A card with Reversal is also considered to have a response ability
printed on the card.

The Reversal Step
The Reversal Step happens after damage has been resolved, and gives the defender an
opportunity to play special attacks called Reversals.
8.3.4.1 If a complete or partial block effect was generated, the defender may play the
Reversal Response.
8.3.4.2 Playing a Reversal follows all of the normal steps in playing a card from hand
(See 8.1 Playing cards from hand).
8.3.4.3 Successfully playing a Reversal will initiate a new attack sequence. Complete
with its own Enhance, Block, Damage, and Reversal Steps. (See 8.3 The attack
sequence.)
8.3.4.3.1 If a player defending against a Reversal generates a block effect,
they may play an attack as a Reversal on their own turn.
8.3.4.4 If there are multiple copies pending, they will be resolved after the attack
sequence generated by a reversal.
8.3.4.5 If a blocking player chooses to pass and not play a Reversal, the attack sequence
is ended, and play returns to the active player.
8.3.4.6 A Reversal is a Response, and may be negated as a Response. If a Reversal is
negated, the Reversal Step ends.

NJBrock22
11-15-2010, 07:19 PM
those 2 characters are not 'grandfathered in' to the new rules, they work AS intended allowing you to play multiple reversals to a block trigger.

N.J.

Shinguyi
11-15-2010, 08:09 PM
those 2 characters are not 'grandfathered in' to the new rules, they work AS intended allowing you to play multiple reversals to a block trigger.

N.J.

Could you clarify a bit more? I'm a bit lost with what you meant. ^^;

NJBrock22
11-16-2010, 01:25 AM
by quoting those rules you were implying that Sakura3 and Chun-Li4 do not work as intended anymore by the 1 reversal per trigger rule, just wanna keep that as one of the golden rule breakers there. Now as to what you were asking again about well the rules state this and the rules state that, remember reversal is a RESPONSE, you're using a DIFFERENT response from a DIFFERENT card to play another [Reversal] attack, read it as attack witht he reversal keyword instead of play an attack AS a reversal for cards like Peaceful way and it will make 100% sense as to why with Peacefull Way allows ya to throw multiple REVERSAL attacks, not attacks as Reversals. Yeah it may seem a long winded explination but if you're having a hard time explaining it that way to newer players... come see me... i'll explain it to them...

N.J.

Shinguyi
11-16-2010, 08:35 AM
I thought since those ***Sakura*** and ::Chun-Li:: are adding a new "mechanic" they are basically breaking the rules via the GOlden Rule and that's why they bypass the Reversal Keyword.

But makes sense what you mean.

Vexion
01-15-2011, 02:43 PM
Ok... I've got a question on this....

Peaceful Way: R Commit, discard 1 momentum: After you completely block your opponent's attack, play 1 Reversal with a printed difficulty of 4 or less (no control check necessary).

Chi Disruptor: Reversal
R Commit 1 foundation: After you block an attack with this card, you may play it as a reversal, following all restrictions and paying all costs.

Dariya: R Commit: After you completely block an attack, place a card from your hand face down into your card pool. That card becomes an exact copy of the blocked attack and gains a resource symbol of your choice. Play that card as a reversal.

Ok, looking at these three cards in conjunction (comparison).... I have three questions about Dariya's ability.

1, when that card is played, it must make a control check immediately right? I'd like to know for combos with Peaceful Way.

2, by becoming an "exact copy" does it have block modifiers for, say, Not Human? And it would still be considered 'face down' correct?

3, I may be reading this wrong, but wouldn't you be able to technically play another reversal as per usual, since it's Dariya's ability playing it as a reversal? I'm contrasting it with Chi Disruptor, which says "follow all restrictions and paying all costs", while Dariya's does not. To me, I see it as a Peaceful Way in which you just have to make a control check.... Can I get a ruling from Jasco on this one, actually?

SMazzurco
01-16-2011, 11:43 AM
Ok... I've got a question on this....

Peaceful Way: R Commit, discard 1 momentum: After you completely block your opponent's attack, play 1 Reversal with a printed difficulty of 4 or less (no control check necessary).

Chi Disruptor: Reversal
R Commit 1 foundation: After you block an attack with this card, you may play it as a reversal, following all restrictions and paying all costs.

Dariya: R Commit: After you completely block an attack, place a card from your hand face down into your card pool. That card becomes an exact copy of the blocked attack and gains a resource symbol of your choice. Play that card as a reversal.

Ok, looking at these three cards in conjunction (comparison).... I have three questions about Dariya's ability.

1, when that card is played, it must make a control check immediately right? I'd like to know for combos with Peaceful Way.

2, by becoming an "exact copy" does it have block modifiers for, say, Not Human? And it would still be considered 'face down' correct?

3, I may be reading this wrong, but wouldn't you be able to technically play another reversal as per usual, since it's Dariya's ability playing it as a reversal? I'm contrasting it with Chi Disruptor, which says "follow all restrictions and paying all costs", while Dariya's does not. To me, I see it as a Peaceful Way in which you just have to make a control check.... Can I get a ruling from Jasco on this one, actually?

Big difference. Dariya says "AS a reversal", peaceful way says "Play a reversal"

A reversal = an attack that has the reversal keyword.
"As a reversal" means to play an attack during the reversal step. Only 1 attack may be played as a reversal to each blocked attack

Shinguyi
01-16-2011, 02:57 PM
Vexion has a point though. Dariya doesn't say follow all restrictions, so you are just technically playing an ability to play an attack as a reversal. Doesn't it kind of break the rules?

SMazzurco
01-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Vexion has a point though. Dariya doesn't say follow all restrictions, so you are just technically playing an ability to play an attack as a reversal. Doesn't it kind of break the rules?

play an attack AS A REVERSAL

Shinguyi
01-16-2011, 06:28 PM
play an attack AS A REVERSAL

I just asked if it broke the rules by any chance, sheesh... -_-;

SMazzurco
01-16-2011, 06:34 PM
I just asked if it broke the rules by any chance, sheesh... -_-;

lol no worries. but yeah rules state you may only play 1 attack as a reversal to a blocked attack.

Vexion
01-16-2011, 11:25 PM
what about the other ones?

SMazzurco
01-17-2011, 08:39 AM
Ok... I've got a question on this....
Chi Disruptor: Reversal
R Commit 1 foundation: After you block an attack with this card, you may play it as a reversal, following all restrictions and paying all costs.

Ok, looking at these three cards in conjunction (comparison).... I have three questions about Dariya's ability.

1, when that card is played, it must make a control check immediately right? I'd like to know for combos with Peaceful Way.

2, by becoming an "exact copy" does it have block modifiers for, say, Not Human? And it would still be considered 'face down' correct?

3, I may be reading this wrong, but wouldn't you be able to technically play another reversal as per usual, since it's Dariya's ability playing it as a reversal? I'm contrasting it with Chi Disruptor, which says "follow all restrictions and paying all costs", while Dariya's does not. To me, I see it as a Peaceful Way in which you just have to make a control check.... Can I get a ruling from Jasco on this one, actually?

1. A card is considered "played" only AFTER all CCs are made and all costs are paid. So technically you make the CC before the card is "played" (but after you announce that you would like to attempt to play it)

2. Yes it has block modifiers. Keep in mind it does not have PRINTED block modifiers. And yes it is a "face down" card.

3. answered.

Tagrineth
01-17-2011, 03:00 PM
what about the other ones?

Show me on Dariya where she says she lets you play an additional reversal and we'll talk.

She says "As a reversal" which means you're following the normal rules and protocol with regard to playing reversals. Period.

Cards like Chun-Li and Sakura specifically state that they're letting you play an additional reversal.


edit: Also, you guys have to keep in mind, that (following all restrictions and paying all costs) is reminder text when something says to play a card. It's always implied unless the ability says to break the restrictions.

Vexion
01-17-2011, 04:26 PM
Show me on Dariya where she says she lets you play an additional reversal and we'll talk.

If you had read my original question, you would've realized I had asked more than 1 question.

Tagrineth
01-18-2011, 01:52 AM
If you had read my original question, you would've realized I had asked more than 1 question.

The rest seemed like it had already been answered sufficiently, but for posterity, yes, it copies everything right down to the copyright info and collation number (not that they're used for anything but they're there!), and you make the control check when the time comes to actually play the card (with Chi Disruptor, after the block step resolves and you move to the Reversal step where it temporarily leaves the card pool. with Dariya it's simply when you get to the Reversal step).