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RockStar
06-25-2010, 12:33 AM
A set i designed during the interim that this game was in virtual purgatory. Originally wanted to create a fighter that would be in ShadoWar, and who fought using a martial art very reminiscent of Jeet Kune Do. Turned it into a Fei Long set since it gave me a visual point of reference for designing cards. However, if this were to make it to print for a ShadoWar set i would call him Lee Jun Fan, or simply Jun Fan, partly in homage to the original Little Dragon, Bruce Lee. :o

Really looking for constructive criticism, so thank you in advance! My friend Vapor Gecko helped me out tremendously, as did Tagrineth and a couple others on ufscentral.com, so thank you to them as well!!

Character:

6/6 *Fei Long* 7hs 18vp +0m
[Air - All - Life]
R Commit 1 foundation: After your non-throw attack deals 3 or less damage, discard it from your card pool and draw 1 card.

E Commit, discard 1 momentum: Your attack gets +X speed or damage. X equals the number of cards you've discarded from your card pool this turn.

Action/s:

2/4 Economy of Motion
[Air - All - Life]
E: If your non-throw attack deals 3 or less damage, add all attacks in your card pool that dealt no damage this turn to your momentum. If your starting character is Fei Long, you may discard this card from your card pool.

1/4 Fei Long's Dodge Step +3m
[Air - All - Life]
R (5+), Discard 1 momentum: After you partially block your opponent's attack, that attack deals no damage. If your starting character is Fei Long, you may discard this card from your card pool.

5/4 Enter the Dragon
[Air - All - Life]
F: Your opponent loses X vitality, and you gain X vitality. X equals the number of attacks you've discarded from your card pool this turn. If your starting character is Fei Long, you may discard this card from your card pool.


Asset/s:

2/4 Nunchaku of the Dragon +2m
[Air - All - Life]
Weapon * Unique
R: After your non-throw attack deals 3 or less damage your opponent loses 1 vitality point.

Fei Long F Destroy this card: Draw X cards. X equals the number of attacks you've discarded from your card pool this turn.

2/4 Left Bai-Jong Stance +2m
[Air - All - Life]
Stance * Unique
R Destroy this card: After you discard an attack from your card pool, add that attack to your hand.

Attacks:

3/3 Rekka Ken.. +2h
[Air - All - Life]
Punch * Reversal
3 spd, mid, 3 dmg
E (4+): If this attack deals damage, reveal the top card of your deck. If the revealed card is a non-throw attack of printed 3 or less damage play that card, following all restrictions and paying all costs (no control check necessary).

4/2 Shin Kyaku +1H
[Air - All - Life]
4 spd, mid, 2 dmg
Kick * Multiple:1 * Fei Long Combo E (Action, Punch)
Combo E: Your Multiple rating gets +X. X equals the number of attacks you've discarded from your card pool this turn.

E Commit 1 Foundation: This attack gets +X damage. X equals the number of attacks you've discarded from your card pool this turn. Each multiple copy gains this enhance.

3/3 Fei Long's Leading Straight Punch +2L
[Air - All - Life]
Punch
3 spd, high, 3 dmg
E: If this attack deals damage commit 1 card in your opponent's staging area.

4/3 Fei Long's Roundhouse Kick.. +1H
[Air - All - Life]
Kick
4 spd, low, 4 dmg
E Commit 1 Foundation: If this attack deals damage discard it from your card pool.

Fei Long E: If this attack is discarded from your card pool, add it to your momentum instead. It still counts as being discarded.

1/3 Fei Long's Quick Jab +0L
[Air - All - Life]
Punch
3 spd, mid, 1 dmg

E: If this attack is not blocked, your opponent loses 1 vitality, and you gain 1 vitality.

1/3 Fei Long's Low Kick +0h
[Air - All - Life]
Kick
2 spd, low, 2 dmg

3/3 Rekka Kyaku +2m
[Air - All - Life]
Kick * Reversal
3 spd, high, 3 dmg
E: If this attack deals damage, add it to your momentum. Only playable on your opponent's turn.


Foundations:

1/4 Be Like Water +4M
[Air/Life/Water]
R Commit: After you completely block an attack, Commit 1 Foundation in your opponent's Staging Area.

Water R Commit, Commit 1 Foundation: After you completely block an attack, Commit 1 card in your opponent's Staging Area.

1/4 Control the Center Line
[Air/All/Life]
E (4+): Your attack gets +X speed. X equals 6 minus the number you checked to play this ability.

1/5 Absorbing what is Useful +3L
[Air - All - Life]
R Commit: After your non-throw attack deals 3 or less damage, your next attack gets -X difficulty. X equals the damage dealt.

1/5 Five-Way attack Method
[Air - All - Life]
E Destroy this Foundation: If your non-throw attack deals 3 or less damage, reveal 1 random momentum. If the revealed card is a non-throw attack, play that attack following all restrictions and paying all costs (no control check necessary).

3/5 Using No-Form as Form... +3m
[Air - All - Life]
F Commit, Discard 1 momentum: For the rest of this turn, after your non-throw attack deals damage, gain 1 vitality.

3/5 ...Having No-Limitation as Limitation +3H
[Air - All - Life]
First F Destroy this foundation: For the rest of this turn, the damage of your attacks cannot be reduced by your opponent's card effects.

Lono
06-25-2010, 04:02 AM
I really disagree with Be Like Water having a Water only, but not having the symbol. I mean, sure, almost every Life character in standard has Water, but it feels like a big F U to the symbol. Especially since its the weakest symbol right now.

These cards seem pretty solid, especially for Fei-Long. However, I'm not sure how well it meshes with the rest of standard. I could see Ivy using a few of these cards, and vice-versa, but I'm not sure what uses other characters would have for these. I can see a pretty good all/life Fei-Long deck setting up T1, and then attacking T2, and getting off a Mist Stance powered Shin Kyaku T3 at the latest. Clearing the card pool is counter intuitive to Ivy's Raging Gnome, so there are only a few cards she'll use.

The other big concern is the weakness of damage reduction shared with Ivy. Against a deck using Man Behind the Mask, that last half of health is going to be hard to get through.

Because this has been worked on for awhile, and has already had a lot of discussion, the goal and aim of the cards seem pretty clear. I think the next goal would be to show how it integrates with the rest of the game. Note some card combos and interactions. I'm sure I'm seeing many, as its pretty late where I am. These are really just the initial thoughts reading over them at 3 in the morning. Overall, it seems really solid self contained.

RockStar
06-25-2010, 09:34 AM
I really disagree with Be Like Water having a Water only, but not having the symbol. I mean, sure, almost every Life character in standard has Water, but it feels like a big F U to the symbol. Especially since its the weakest symbol right now.

These cards seem pretty solid, especially for Fei-Long. However, I'm not sure how well it meshes with the rest of standard. I could see Ivy using a few of these cards, and vice-versa, but I'm not sure what uses other characters would have for these. I can see a pretty good all/life Fei-Long deck setting up T1, and then attacking T2, and getting off a Mist Stance powered Shin Kyaku T3 at the latest. Clearing the card pool is counter intuitive to Ivy's Raging Gnome, so there are only a few cards she'll use.

The other big concern is the weakness of damage reduction shared with Ivy. Against a deck using Man Behind the Mask, that last half of health is going to be hard to get through.

Because this has been worked on for awhile, and has already had a lot of discussion, the goal and aim of the cards seem pretty clear. I think the next goal would be to show how it integrates with the rest of the game. Note some card combos and interactions. I'm sure I'm seeing many, as its pretty late where I am. These are really just the initial thoughts reading over them at 3 in the morning. Overall, it seems really solid self contained.

That is a very fair assessment, Lono. Here are a couple designer notes i had going into creating this Set that may bring to light why some things are the way they currently are...

1. Ivy was the inspiration and the standard, as she is the first weenie-rush deck/theme that can actually compete on the tournament level. However, i wanted to utilize a mechanic that hasn't yet been done in NewFS, and allows the character to be just as effective with the weenie-rush, but in a completely different way: Discarding attacks from his cardpool.

At the time, PotM was still legal, and it seemed as if too many characters were relying on it's damage pump to have kill potential, and Ivy was no different. I wanted to create a character that could kill without NEEDING to build around PotM.

However, keep in mind that this is a weenie-rush themed set, and this particular style of aggression has always had to deal with damage reduction. It is an in-built achilles heel that acts as a balance to the damage potential, from the sheer number of attacks a properly built weenie-rush deck will throw a turn. That Ivy 'suffers' from damage redux as well tells me i'm close to the mark.

2. With regards to Be Like Water...again, PotM was still legal, and wasn't going to be banned any time soon, imo (shows what i know). Being able to play symbol specific abilities, even without having the prerequisite symbol printed on your character, wasn't that difficult. And, there's already precedent in this block for certain cards to have symbol specific abilities where that symbol in question wasn't actually printed on the card itself (Communing with the Ancients).

As it stands now, it's really not that difficult to actually put Water on that card. It really makes a lot of sense. So, i will simply take this as being a good suggestion that i agree with, and make that change.

3. There are quite a few card combos that synergize between Fei Long, his support, and the rest of the current Standard cardpool. Please note, this set was designed with current Standard in mind, and doesn't take into account the power of Legacy or even Extended. I think Shinobi Traditions + Fei Long, for example, would be broke as hell!

I will take the time to post a preliminary build i've been using to test against other decks, as well as post some card combos that i was seeing in the build. You are very right that the deck is somewhat self-contained. I will endeavor to make more clear how the cards in this set are relevant.

One question tho, how would Mist Stance power Shin Kyaku? Shin Kyaku is a mid-zone attack?

Thank you for the honest critique, Lono!

Lono
06-25-2010, 01:35 PM
Oh man, I thought Shin Kyaku was high. Again, it was 3 in the morning. What do you do for the combo then? All of these Fei-Long actions clear themselves. I guess you could use Base Hold, or Searching for Pants.

I understand that cards already exist like Be Like Water, it's just that Water explicitly could use any help it could get. If it was a Good only ability, I probably wouldn't say anything.

RockStar
06-25-2010, 04:48 PM
No, i hear you, man. I totally understand that Water needs a big kick in the pants in order to compete with other symbols, and i'm totally cool with adding Water to that card; it makes sense to me to have that on there.

Fei's Action cards are self-clearing, and that's intentionally designed to NOT synergize with Shin Kyaku, but rather to synergize with Fei's character ability. A player would have to go out of the way, so to speak, to set up Shin Kyaku. However, i hear that Quick Strike would be an excellent Action card for a Shin Kyaku finisher.

Also, i know that Ivy and Fei will share cards pretty liberally. Another character that will benefit from Fei's support, however, will be Christie Monteiro. There are a couple kicks that she would certainly consider: Fei Long's Roundhouse, for example. And, i think there are a couple foundations that would really be advantageous to her as well: Absorbing what is Useful, and Control the Centerline come immediately to mind.

RockStar
06-30-2010, 05:19 PM
Here's a quick build of Fei i've been using, primarily just his character card intermingled with some of Ivy's support and other Standard stuff.

6/6 *Fei Long* 7hs 18vp +0m
[Air - All - Life]
R Commit 1 foundation: After your non-throw attack deals 3 or less damage, discard it from your card pool and draw 1 card.

E Commit, discard 1 momentum: Your attack gets +X speed or damage. X equals the number of cards you've discarded from your card pool this turn.

Assets (3):
Eiserne Drossell x3

Attacks (20):
Howling Spirits x4
Evil Sparrow x4
Razor's Bite x4
Tao Wu Kick x4
Swing Kick x4

Foundations (36):
Needs a Challenge x3
Genius Alchemist x3
Regretful Existence x4
Torn Hero x4
Hunt for Jin x4
Know When to Talk... x4
Carefree x4
The Strength Within x4
Researching Anywhere x3
Flexible Body x3

The ability to throw 4+ attacks per turn is consistent. Dealing 20+ dmg turn 2 is possible; this IS an aggro deck afterall. However, there are minimal speed pumps in this deck, as Fei prefers to save his Foundations for his Character R to draw into more attacks. This does mean that his Discard/Draw mechanic can be interrupted by 1) Damage Reduction, and 2) Full-Blocking his attacks.

The goal was to create a character that can be fun and competitive, not broke.

Some interesting card interactions...Just a few off the top...

*Fei Long's Roundhouse --> Kick Attack--> Law's Somersault Kick (Multipled)
*(On opponent's Turn) Block --> Rekka Kyaku --> Flexible Body --> Knows When to Talk... "Prevent Defense"
*Using No Form as Form... + Swing Kick = VP reset, but in a more controlled fashion.
*Nunchaku of the Dragon + Howling Spirits = 2 vp loss after ea successful hit (min). Throw in Eiserne D for shenanigans on one attack.

Also,

Absorbing what is Useful will be a very good card for those wanting to ensure their ability to play high diff attacks later in Turn.

In particular, Fruit Picker Christie will want to run Absorbing What is Useful, Fei Long's Roundhouse, and Be Like Water.

Thoughts? Comments? Critiques? Are you seeing anything i'm missing?

Lono
07-01-2010, 05:17 AM
Looks pretty solid, though I always thought Fei-Long was pretty good. It'd be cool to take this, and mix the rest of your support in. Do a little break down, and your typical kill card.

I didn't think of Rekka Kyaku-> Flexible Body-> KWtT. That's a really cool defensive combo.

Nekuro
07-01-2010, 11:50 AM
Love the set, man. Actually gets me motivated to try my hand out at this sort of thing... I just hope some of your cards get printed out, 'cause it looks pretty interesting to play ^^

EDIT : After more thinking, I'm starting to wonder what would happen to a Yi Shan deck playing these cards... Looks like there could be fun times ^^ (Rekka Kyaku, Economy of Motion, Five-Way Attack Method).

RockStar
07-01-2010, 02:38 PM
Love the set, man. Actually gets me motivated to try my hand out at this sort of thing... I just hope some of your cards get printed out, 'cause it looks pretty interesting to play ^^

EDIT : After more thinking, I'm starting to wonder what would happen to a Yi Shan deck playing these cards... Looks like there could be fun times ^^ (Rekka Kyaku, Economy of Motion, Five-Way Attack Method).

Yuppers. Nice one, man. A definite loop, but not an infinite one = more fun, but not broke!

RockStar
07-16-2010, 05:49 PM
At Lono's request, here is a Fei Long build utilizing cards from our current Standard format, mixed in with some of his support:

1x 6/6 Fei Long* 7hs 18vp

Actions (7):
4x 4/5 Quick Strike
3x 2/4 Economy of Motion

Assets (3):
3x 2/4 Nunchaku of the Dragon

Attacks (18):
3x 4/3 Fei Long's Roundhouse Kick..
4x 4/2 Shin Kyaku
4x 3/3 Fei Long's Leading Straight Punch
4x 3/3 Rekka Kyaku
3x 3/3 Rekka Ken..

Foundations (34):
4x 2/5 Regretful Existence
4x 1/5 Absorbing What is Useful
4x 1/5 5-Way Attack Method
4x 1/5 Know When to Talk..
4x 1/5 Torn Hero
4x 1/5 Carefree
3x 2/4 Researching Anywhere
3x 2/4 Flexible Body
4x 1/4 Be Like Water

So, here's what a competitive Shin Kyaku deck MIGHT look like. Just as Ivy is in love with her own attacks, so is Fei Long, as they create the ideal set up to play Shin Kyaku. Several loops exist in this deck, but none are infinite, as the key card that makes the loops go 1) is an E that says "if this attack deals 3 or less damage...", and 2) also destroys itself as a cost:

Fei Long's Roundhouse.. with 5-Way attack Method + Another attack = 2 attack loop.
Rekka Kyaku with 5-Way attack Method + Rekka Ken = potentially 3 attacks played on your opponent's turn, in rapid succession.
Rekka Kyaku + Flexible Body + Know When to talk.. = Prevent Defense.

Kill turn is about 4 - 8 attacks thrown, finishing with Quick Strike + Fei Long's Leading Straight Punch + Shin Kyaku. Can probably get this to go off T3 with consistency.

Low costed Foundations are essential, as many of them destroy themselves, or destroy other foundations, as a cost.

The idea is to continually throw attack after attack, and to do it with as much ease as Ivy, but in a very different fashion.

Thoughts? Ideas? Please discuss...

Nekuro
07-19-2010, 02:42 PM
Hmmm... Wouldn't it be a bit difficult to generate momentum? Even with your momentum-gen foundations out it still seems getting a kill by turn 3 wouldn't be easy... I might have overlooked something mind.

RockStar
07-19-2010, 03:57 PM
Well, to be fair, i did say "probably". Lolz.

That said, a lot of the momentum gen is on the attacks: Rekka Kyaku and Fei's Roundhouse Kick.. . There is further support already available via Designer Clothes, and even more on Air symbol, but... the only real way it to know is to play test this a bazillion times, which i can and will do in the upcoming weeks.

RockStar
08-11-2010, 01:44 AM
Bump City. Didn't realize that my Fei set merited a 5-Star Rating. I'm very flattered and honored by that, y'all!

So, thank you!! :)

guitalex2010
08-12-2010, 10:09 AM
I have something to say. Change the requirement on the Combo for the Shin Kyaku. As it stands, if you made a deck solely from his support (NOTHING ELSE), he would NEVER be able to pull off his own Combo due to all of his actions discarding themselves because he's Fei Long...

You say you noticed it and you don't WANT the card to work off of his actions, but this is an extremely bizarre way to design. What will a Fei Long fan think when they see that one of the best attacks in there can't be used with his own support? EVERY card must work well with the character's support, and work not so well in decks for other characters. Knight Breaker comes to mind as one of those cards that violates this. It works better in any other deck than Nightmare, because he can't set it up as quick.

Either change the combo, or if you don't want that, change the text in the action with the Form to say "if your character is Fei Long, you MAY discard this card from your card pool" so as to make it more versatile and not messing around with the balance.

RockStar
08-12-2010, 12:09 PM
Either change the combo, or if you don't want that, change the text in the action with the Form to say "if your character is Fei Long, you MAY discard this card from your card pool" so as to make it more versatile and not messing around with the balance.

I like this suggestion a lot, guitalex, so thank you for chiming in! How does the rest of the Set look to you?

guitalex2010
08-12-2010, 12:54 PM
Looks alright. I in particular like including some anti-meta in the foundations that are otherwise too specific for the character. While cards have to do well with their character, there should also be something else the symbols may need. A good example is Prominent Noblewoman. It has the Ivy ability that works perfectly with her, and anti-life gain because she would suffer from it.

Some things could have another ability. Doesn't need to be a PLAYED ability, it could be anti-committal, anti-destruction, anti-discard... something the resources in the card need. Doesn't need to affect your opponent either, it could be that if the opponent tries something you get a bonus.

Example: No Limitation as Limitation seems a bit... limited (pun pretty much obviously intended). Maybe you'd like to have some anti-damage reduction and anti-life gain in the set... spam decks cringe at the mention of Man Behind the Mask, or in Legacy, False Pretenses.

First F Destroy this foundation: For the rest of this turn, the damage of your attacks cannot be reduced by your opponent's card effects.

Choose something that seems too specific and give it that ability. I'm sure that Fei will appreciate it most of all, even when others would sideboard it against wall decks.

RockStar
08-12-2010, 02:47 PM
Once again, i'm very humbled by your insight, and i thank you and appreciate your suggestion as well! I'm going to either change a foundation as per your suggestion, or create an entirely new foundation with your suggested ability.

Thanks again, man!!

RockStar
08-15-2010, 11:09 AM
"...Having No-Limitation as Limitation" foundation gets a new ability. And, "Using No-Form as Form" foundation gets modified by taking off the 3 or less damage descriptor.

Please read and comment. Thanks.