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generalreaction2.0
12-14-2010, 07:22 PM
Let's say i use Nehtali or some other card to boost the check for the E on hunger for souls.

Play Hunger for Souls, check a five for the ability, then R with Nehtali and pitch a +3 block.

How many foundations would get destroyed?

NJBrock22
12-14-2010, 07:38 PM
i would say 5 as it's saying Value of the check and not the Check itself... i'd say if it said the CHECK it'd be 8 and not 5 but since it references the Value of the checked card it's 5.

N.J.

JinKazama
12-14-2010, 08:32 PM
Hunger for souls says = to the control check made for the ability so it would be 8.

NJBrock22
12-14-2010, 08:42 PM
http://www.twoheadeddragon.com/ufs/SCIV01/scans/003.jpg

mind telling me where it says CONTROL CHECK and not CONTROL VALUE.

Sato Arashi
12-14-2010, 08:48 PM
Yeah, it has to be the printed value of the checked card. It'd be broken in the case of having Chasing After the Power, making it a standard version of Start Over. So yeah, if you check a three, you have to commit two to pass the ability, but both of you destroys three foundations.

Shinguyi
12-14-2010, 09:38 PM
Well, committing foundations doesn't technically increase the Check. NJBrock22 is int he right track for this one I think since as he stated, Hunger for Souls asks for the "value of the card checked for this ability" so its referencing the printed value of the card.

If it said "value checked for this ability" or "control check made for this ability" then I would say its not printed.

JinKazama
12-14-2010, 09:47 PM
If it said "value checked for this ability" or "control check made for this ability" then I would say its not printed.

E (5+): If your non-throw attack deals damage, each player destroys X foundations in their staging area. X equals the control value of the card checked for this ability.

NJBrock22
12-14-2010, 09:57 PM
ok let's just wait for Chris or one of the Mod's to come in here then... geez... i already answered with card posted... it says VALUE not CHECK, yes if it said CHECK it'd be 8, Value is only affected by 1 card... and that card is banned right now(Ruler of Southtown)... so yeah...

N.J.

retched
12-14-2010, 11:37 PM
I may not be a rules expect or anything but this is pretty common sense from the rules text.

To quote the text:

X equals the control value of the card checked for this ability.

Control value of the card checked for this ability. Not the actual result of the check, in this case the Hunger For Souls ability is looking at the card checked.

If it were the way certain others made it out to be, I'm pretty sure I make people destroy 15 foundations easily.

Let's look at this in the inverse, how do you destroy NEGATIVE foundations? That's right, control checks can be modified to hit the negatives. So do we allow the play to freely add -X foundations to their staging area?

That's absurd.

SMazzurco
12-15-2010, 12:18 AM
pretty sure it has been ruled you CAN modify the CC check...

no one remembers ibuki + HfS?

NJBrock22
12-15-2010, 12:21 AM
uh sal, we're not ARGUING the modification of the CHECK... it's the VALUE that is the question here...

N.J.

SMazzurco
12-15-2010, 12:35 AM
i remember it being ruled control check = control value.
2 words for the same thing. You CAN modify the value of the checked card. Like Jin's floating effect or chasing after the power


Big thing here: it does NOT say PRINTED

NJBrock22
12-15-2010, 01:06 AM
uh ok where the **** did it ever get ruled that way... because if it did, and no offense to who ruled it that way, it's stupid and needs to be in the AGR... besides Control CHECK >< Control Value, Control CHECK = Value + Modifiers... thats simple game mechanics... gah my head hurts now... we need an OMNI-Faq... like years ago.

N.J.

SMazzurco
12-15-2010, 01:56 AM
i swear tag ruled it that way on ffg forums...will ahve to wait for them to pipe in...

Trip Se7ens
12-15-2010, 02:17 AM
Pipe-pipe.

Tagrineth
12-15-2010, 05:14 AM
I think this one should be returned up to management. I originally thought Value meant the actual card's value and not the "control check" generated by said value - I always went by the given ruling from FFG.

SMazzurco
12-15-2010, 07:23 AM
I think this one should be returned up to management. I originally thought Value meant the actual card's value and not the "control check" generated by said value - I always went by the given ruling from FFG.

Was i correct though that it was ruled that Control check = control value on FFG forums?

edit:
Thank you google caching

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8NIRjJUJK7EJ:new.fantasyflightgames .com/edge_foros_discusion.asp%3Fefid%3D30%26efcid%3D1%2 6efidt%3D122900+ibuki+hunger+for+souls&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Now this is just to back up where i got my idea. Of course it can be ruled different and treated that way from here on out, but i guess my memory not as bad as i thought ;)

JinKazama
12-15-2010, 07:59 AM
Thats what i thought I played that card with jin alot last year.

SMazzurco
12-15-2010, 12:40 PM
control value of checked card is like saying damage value of current attack.

It does not state printed so it could be modified.

Also keep in mind, commiting foundations to pass a CC does NOT modify the CC, it just allows a CC that is too low to pass. I forget the actual wording but i remember it doesn't ADD to the CC, it just prevents it from failing.

generalreaction2.0
12-15-2010, 01:28 PM
honestly i didnt think my question would generate this much attention

EscarcegaGuy
12-15-2010, 02:16 PM
ok let's just wait for Chris or one of the Mod's to come in here then... geez...

N.J.

Alright, I'm here. I say that it does destroy 8 and not 5. The end.

NJBrock22
12-15-2010, 02:32 PM
uh wrong chris... other one posted earlier, nice try Escarcega...

N.J.

jason
12-21-2010, 10:44 PM
Hunger for Souls effects the "Value" of the card checked for the ability. Therefor you cannot modify it with foundations or other cards that modify control checks.

aslum
12-22-2010, 12:15 AM
But you could with something like Ivy 5 (http://wiki.ufscentral.com/index.php?title=Ivy) right?

jason
12-22-2010, 02:18 AM
Ivy 5 referse to the printed control, so I don't really know what you are asking.

Tagrineth
12-22-2010, 03:55 AM
Aslum is pointing out that Ivy5 says "All control values get +X" rather than just "control checks".

SMazzurco
12-22-2010, 05:55 AM
Hunger for Souls effects the "Value" of the card checked for the ability. Therefor you cannot modify it with foundations or other cards that modify control checks.

I am fine with this rule but i just want to make sure you are aware it was ruled differently on FFG forums ( i believe a link is earlier in this thread )

aslum
12-22-2010, 09:42 AM
Right, Ivy changes the actual control value of the card, whereas most effects change the value of the control check. And I think this is a good reversal of a stupid FFG ruling honestly.
Before modifications the control check = control value of the card, but if you modify the control check, it shouldn't modify the control value. Conversely though, if you modify the control value of the card it does modify the control check, since the CC is based off of the CV.

billyarnoss
12-23-2010, 03:50 AM
Hunger for Souls effects the "Value" of the card checked for the ability. Therefor you cannot modify it with foundations or other cards that modify control checks.

Good. I prefer the ruling this way (even if it does nerf test of strength-Cervantes). I also think that Dread pirate and beyond humanity should be printed check too.

Shinguyi
12-23-2010, 08:51 AM
Good. I prefer the ruling this way (even if it does nerf test of strength-Cervantes). I also think that Dread pirate and beyond humanity should be printed check too.

I don't think Dread Pirate falls in this category since it looks at the check from all angles. If check was modified with a Floating Effects you may not play Dread Pirate but if you increase the check with a Response then you can. At least that's how I interpret it.