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View Full Version : The Errata Idea Thread....or just Overall Card Thread!



Xenomic
07-01-2010, 08:42 PM
Alright, so I did start this on the other forum under a different name, but let's start this here! Since I and my friends have recently started to get back into the game (no, not going to go to any tourneys or such, so nobody will get to see me or anything!), we've been playing both on Lackey and offline (extended on Lackey, Legacy offline). And here's my forethoughts so far (most of these were previously discussed with with NJBrock btw).


Shinobi Tradition: To be honest, even IF this were to be errated to work only once per turn, stay committed if used for costs of abilities, or such, it's still a ridiculous card. Well, maybe not if only once per turn, but nonetheless, once you manage to get 2 out, and anymore than that, it's ridiculously hard to fail control checks like...ever, and costs for abilities and such pretty much mean nothing with these as well.

Tira***: Now, my bud and I discussed this, and he doesn't think she's THAT bad (mainly blames my Evil deck for having both Floats and Shinobis), but I think that she's just dumb. Considering she can guarantee damage all the time when she attacks, and block just about ANYTHING thrown at her, is just too much I think.

Zangief*****: NEEDS a (minimum of 1) on that 1st ability. It's ridiculously good. End of story. I had 6 some attacks thrown at me, and took 3 damage from all of them combined, even with them getting massive damage pumps and the such...

Tira's Contract: I don't think it's THAT bad, since there NEEDS to be a way to deal with Throws, but considering that it says no to just about anything....yeeeeah. One of Terry's new foundations is more balanced I think, and Maxima's foundation is good for throws. This is like taking both of those and combining them into one I think.

Wandering Monk: Why am I bringing this up? Well....when you can get 3-4 foundations very easily...it's kinda ridiculous don't you think? Sure, it's a bit of a heavy cost, but that doesn't mean much when you get just about anything you want.


That's pretty much my quirk. That is all! I know I'm not the best at explaining or arguing stuff but....maybe others will add onto this/dispute it or whatnot...

Omega
07-02-2010, 12:15 AM
I actually came up with a list of ideas for erratae for the cards on the watch list, but...a lot got banned.

makingsenseofus
07-02-2010, 10:34 AM
I think its going to be a little harder to balance legacy than just slapping errata's on a few problem cards. there are just so many good-overpowered cards in that format that taking away one card with particular symbols just serves to put those symbols at a disadvantage. Water loop decks have always enjoyed being able to get off early combo's thanks to shinobi tradition, so when shinobi leaves the format, water, a lower tier symbol, seems like it looses a lot of power.
Either a lot of cards should get the axe, or only the cards that caused MAJOR problems IE stuff like defender of the empire and ruler of south town (already banned, but these cards should never have been printed). The control game in legacy just seems too strong to warrant banning any remotely aggressive cards. if we want to ban stuff like shinobi, which readies itself, how about banning stuff like program malfunction, which can make sure particular cards never ready again for very little cost? order already gets program, ring vet and experienced combatant, which were "fine" when they were originally released, but being able to run all 3 in a deck will severely hinder any deck relying on its foundations. In the same vein, being able to run yoga mastery, criminal past, lost memories, inhuman perception, oral dead, cursed blood ect. just means that any deck that wins by multiple or powerful will always fall if faced with the solid wall of control mentioned here.
in legacy, it seems like you have to either swing hard and fast, or prevent you're opponent from doing anything ever. it also seems as though doing the latter is always more consistent. If people really want to balance legacy, look at character's like akuma, ukyo and yes, zangief who are arguably just too damn good at what they do. Look at order tap down decks and death control decks and see what pieces they really should have, and what pieces they don't need. ban stuff like battle prowess and abelia's friendship (banned in extended but NOT in legacy), which become reset buttons if you have more than one out. Legacy seems as though it could be balanced. good tier characters could be playable instead of just top tier. most, if not all, symbols could have a shot. it just depends on how deep into it we want to look.

Xenomic
07-02-2010, 08:34 PM
Yeah, I'm kinda just trying out things and seeing what's ridiculous in Legacy and whatnot with what I have. Granted, I won't be able to do EVERY card, since I don't have access to all of them (unless I use Lackey but eh...).

Xenomic
07-03-2010, 08:36 PM
Alright, a couple more things to throw into this....

Adopted: Seriously, when you can go from 6 life to 24 life (note, I was using K'* so....), from just two of these...it's a bit much. And the fact that it has Chaos AND Order, two of the biggest momentum gen symbols in the game, is just ridiculous. Sure, they'll pass their control check, but won't matter if they can't even hit with it (thanks to Fast Food Lover and Tira's Contract, both of which Chaos can use). I say that this needs axed.

Material Advantage: No. Just no. It was bad back then, and it's even worse now. Sure, you can pretty much do stuff against it....kinda....but considering that you can pretty much just use Throws from momentum without even having to make a check or anything like that is dumb. And there's really NO downside to using the ability at all. I say axe this as well.

That's it for now. I'm sure there'll be more as I playtest my current decks atm (Earth Demitri*, Life Nakoruru***, Water Chun-Li8, Fire Xianghua*, and Chaos K'*), though it'll be a bit before I see if anything else should get axed or something...

Omega
07-03-2010, 08:53 PM
Wait, Order has momentum generation? Since when? (and don't say Whereabouts). Also note that in Extended, where you can be reasonably annoyed with certain lifegain cards, there is significantly LESS momentum generation. Or in Legacy...who cares? Card's like Timmy's devour vitality whole. Nobody's clamoring over Chobi Jishi, either, which can take you back to full health from 1 with the same concept - check boosting (which is stupidly easy with many cards).

And how has Material Advantage become any more powerful?



I'd honestly like to see JG take things to the playerbase before taking action on things. Honestly, with either of the following errata, Hata would be much more reasonable: "your attack" for the zone switch, or "+1 speed or +1 damage" for the pump. Yeah, he's still pretty good, but not rapetacular like he currently is.

Stand Off...just print more, or errata to "only playable once per attack"/"after your second/third time using this ability this turn, commit this card" (can be altered to commit all copies and/or track the uses from other copies).

The list goes on, y'know?

Xenomic
07-03-2010, 09:00 PM
Well, back way when Material first came, you didn't have so many throws that you could just simply recycle over and over again. At least you HAD to work to recycle attacks from momentum. Material? Nah! I'll just commit this to throw this attack back at you over and over and over! And well....considering how most decks (particularly Water...) loves to have their throws...yeeeeah.

And I guess Order doesn't have THAT much momentum generation aside from Whereabouts, I suppose that is true. So I suppose it is just ridiculous off of Chaos alone then. As for Chobi Jishi, haven't really used that tbh. Maybe I should give K' that and see how dumb it can be lol.

EDIT: Looking at Chobi Jishi, I don't think that's NEARLY as bad as Adopted. Sure, it COULD potentially get you back to full life without giving the opponent a check bonus, but that HAS to do damage for it to even work, which nowadays isn't that hard to stop unless it's beefed up massively in speed or something. Adopted just....happens

Omega
07-03-2010, 09:32 PM
So it's more powerful because there's more throws in the game, even though the power level of said throws has gone down dramatically?

Chobi Jishi is amazing, btw. =D /random plug

Xenomic
07-03-2010, 09:35 PM
Throws are still powerful nonetheless I think. Granted, we do have that one Maxima foundation/Tira's Contract/Fast Food Lover/that one Mika asset/other stuff to deal with Throws now, but they're still strong imo.

I also noticed that even though I don't MEAN for my decks to do so, their is a LOT of vitality gaining going on. And I do mean a LOT....the only deck to NOT gain vitality that I have right now is Xianghua...every other deck can do so in one form or another, and not just a little life either x_x

Omega
07-03-2010, 09:41 PM
But the thing is...Material Advantage is Legacy.

Legacy has LOTS of answers. =P

Xenomic
07-03-2010, 09:47 PM
That would require running stuff specifically for that then, which can, in the long run, end up hurting what the deck is MEANT to do. I mean, sure, there's Yo:):):):)ora and Lord Raptor stuff to deal with Forms, but that's cards that COULD be used for other things that the deck could really need to make it work better. It's rough either way methinks.

Omega
07-03-2010, 10:39 PM
Or, it's stuff that's damage redux and general attack neutering, which you play anyway. =P

And foundation destruction...

Xenomic
07-03-2010, 10:52 PM
Well, I was referring to Forms in general with my comment there. lol. But yeah, there's always those things for attacks anyways. And stuff. I'm just seeing what is just dumb. Some resources just don't have ways of dealing with some of the crap at the very least. I know that Fire doesn't seem to have anything going for it in that regard with reducing damage or destruction and stuffs. I guess there IS Dodge Step if you really need it but ya know!

makingsenseofus
07-04-2010, 11:12 AM
Xeno, you should test an order, evil or death control deck. it really puts what cards are balanced in legacy into perspective.

Tagrineth
07-04-2010, 03:13 PM
Well, back way when Material first came, you didn't have so many throws that you could just simply recycle over and over again. At least you HAD to work to recycle attacks from momentum. Material? Nah! I'll just commit this to throw this attack back at you over and over and over! And well....considering how most decks (particularly Water...) loves to have their throws...yeeeeah.

Wait, what?

Air had Overhand Throw right from set one, and sets two and three brought Glass Slippers, Bloody Tale, Ninja Shrike Dash, and Strike Heads. Material Advantage has NEVER had a shortage of throws to use! O_o And even without all Throws it had Shadow Banishment, too. lol.

edit: oh and Water can add Ohicho Throw to that list in place of Overhand Throw. >_>;

makingsenseofus
07-04-2010, 05:33 PM
In regards to mat adv, I feel like legacy is far too over-the-top control oriented right now to warrant banning a viable kill condition for an aggro deck. especially one that can take 2 turns to set up. Play it turn 1, play an attack turn 2, use mat turn 3. By then your opponent has either killed you or dropped down a negation or tap down piece.

Xenomic
07-04-2010, 08:58 PM
Well, here's what I got so far.

Switched Nakoruru*** for Ruru**, since she's just much better. One game I managed to do 32M43 damage, and another 30M45...thanks to Deceptive. Yes, I know, there's ways of dealing with it, but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous. And to top it off, this is done on a REVERSAL so unless the opponent has a way to reduce speed or damage back to its printed values or have something like Size Matters or something, there's nothing they can do. If you ask me, Deceptive Look's Es should've been switched around....

Then there's Special Forces Training (IIRC that's the name of the Charlie split foundation/attack). Granted, 5 momentum is a steep cost...except that it's not. Discarding an opponent's entire hand is just too powerful of an ability, especially if it's used first.

And then there's Strength of the Mountain. Why this? Simply because it turns just about any attack into a Throw. Again, yes, I know, there's ways of dealing with it, but not EVERYTHING has ways of dealing with it.

And now....thinking on it....Nakoruru** and Demitri* are both ridiculous characters to fight...yeeeah. Need I say more?


That's it for me.

Tader_Salad
07-04-2010, 11:19 PM
To be fair it's a little far fetched to expect everything to have a specific answer for any particular card. Not everything has answers for Strength of the Mountain......so? Does it break the game or create a negative play experience? Remember that while evaluating a cards strength is always classy you must be careful not to preemptively question whether or not it should be legal. There are quite a few conditions that must be met in order to take that step, none of which are how many symbols have specific answers to this card.

For the example of Material Advantage I would be hard pressed to say that it's not a balanced card. Starting with it's stats it's very modest being a 3/4 with a +2 block. Since it plays a random momentum dumping cards en' mass into your momentum won't work out too well. That means you need to sneak some quality attacks into there (insert good throws here).

How can we answer Material Advantage? You can negate the form activation, blank it, destroy it, lock it down with Ring Veteran or another ability or discard their momentum killing their fuel source. I left out reducing the throws damage to zero or removing/discarding the attack from the card pool but those are technically possible answers too just not as final.

No one's saying anyone is crying wolf, just take extra care not to by mistake :D

Xenomic
07-04-2010, 11:28 PM
Aye. Again, I'm not that good at bringing up arguments or points so...I'm just bringing up what I think may or may not be ridiculous. Like with Deceptive Look, I DID bring up the fact that if the player were to use cards that return damage (Holding Ground, Made Not Born) or speed (Strife's Patronage, American Made), or simply use cards that reduces damage or whatnot (Reversal, Size Matters, Compassionate Heroism, etc.), it's not AS bad, but it's still silly. And as I said with that card, I still believe the Es should've been switched around. That way, not everyone could abuse it so easily.

The thing with Material though, is that more often than not, they WILL always have some kind of momentum (Whereabouts is risky to do, but plausible, and there's also Merchant's Message/Achieving Your Goals that will guarantee they get that card that they want). Of course, could always Absurd Strength it or something, but that can only go so far sometimes lol.


Also, Cody*** makes me sad pants auto-passing checks. Too bad he couldn't use those 10 momentum he had for that 30 speed attack eh? lol x_x.

Omega
07-05-2010, 12:09 PM
Deceptive Look has always been Life's kill condition in Legacy, without exception. =/

Xenomic
07-05-2010, 12:12 PM
Aye, and even though I know that and Life IS the resource that I've stuck with, even I think it should go. It's just dumb, no exceptions.

Tagrineth
07-05-2010, 12:15 PM
Oh no, a 3/4 blockless foundation that requires other pieces to boost speed first and then requires a momentum on a resource that can't generate it easily, making an Enhance-heavy kill condition in a Yoga Mastery format.

So broken.

Xenomic
07-05-2010, 12:28 PM
Oh noes, you have to actually RUN resources that uses Yoga first to even USE Yoga. Again, not everything has an answer to everything. And again, I know there's other ways to deal with it, but doesn't matter if said answers never appear, the player has NO access to them to begin with, or said answers get committed/destroyed. Not to mention, it doesn't matter if it's a 3/4 blockless foundation. It's still ridiculous nonetheless. Not only that, it's not that hard to generate momentum for Life at all. And all you need IS one momentum. NOT hard at all.

I will say it again....just because some answers exist doesn't make cards any less stupider. Yes, I will say that Yoga itself is dumb (it does completely shut down Life. Not a single card I can think of that Life has that can bypass it at all. Not to mention several other resources get hurt massively by it with not that many ways of dealing with either), and I WILL say that Pieces of Eight/Bretheren of the Coast are more BALANCED versions of that card. At least the player is CAPABLE of doing something other than having a staging area full of nothing they can play from. So therefore, I will say it again....the Es SHOULD have been switched on Deceptive.

makingsenseofus
07-05-2010, 01:31 PM
in regards to deceptive look, if you don't run yoga, your deck should either have an answer to it or you should be able to win before it hits that point. There is always stuff like holding ground and healer to drop an attacks damage to printed, but decks that could run those cards either already do, or are to fast to care about it. Legacy is the land of turn 2 kill. Hammer, KFT, chain throw, Dragon lifter (You can Hammer a dragon lifter, that's frightening), not to mention stuff like Hilde. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about stuff like deceptive look. Other decks are just as broken, its a race to see who is the most broken. Not every deck needs to have an answer, some just need to kill before the card in question becomes a problem.

Nfxon
07-05-2010, 01:34 PM
In all fairness, trying to "fix" legacy is like throwing a hot dog down a town.
Your really not going to get anywhere. Until cards / combos bring about a total issue such as turbo and enlightenment leave it as it.

makingsenseofus
07-05-2010, 01:40 PM
I don't understand the analogy, but I completely agree.

Omega
07-05-2010, 02:05 PM
unban kunai
i agree with this man

Tagrineth
07-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Oh noes, you have to actually RUN resources that uses Yoga first to even USE Yoga. Again, not everything has an answer to everything. And again, I know there's other ways to deal with it, but doesn't matter if said answers never appear, the player has NO access to them to begin with, or said answers get committed/destroyed. Not to mention, it doesn't matter if it's a 3/4 blockless foundation. It's still ridiculous nonetheless. Not only that, it's not that hard to generate momentum for Life at all. And all you need IS one momentum. NOT hard at all.

Yoga features two of the best resources in Legacy (Death and Void), and it's not like Yoga is the only Enhance negation (Fire gets No Memories, Chaos get Pieces of Eight) and then there are cards like Rejection, Holding Ground, Made Not Born, Size Matters, Consumed, Finesse. Strife's Patronage, Paid to Protect, and Tira's Contract can aid actually blocking, as can popping Idyllic Kamui Kotan after the speed buffs are spent but before using Deceptive Look. There's also less direct methods of avoiding the full damage like Fight or Flight, or even Brethren of the Coast.

That's before considering Yoga Teleport, Yoga Adept, Beautiful Nightmare, and Cursed Blood to prevent it from entering play, and lockdown like Ring Vet, Experienced Combatant, Program Malfunction, and Chinese Boxing.

And negation like Lost Memories and Compassionate Heroism... and destruction like Without a Care.

And as much as you can talk about "what if they don't see the answers", well what if the Life deck is all Speed pumps and Deceptive but doesn't draw Deceptive? It works both ways, really. Yeah it's powerful when you get it out and it doesn't get stopped, but even then it's not always a guaranteed kill lol. It's just really strong.


I will say it again....just because some answers exist doesn't make cards any less stupider. Yes, I will say that Yoga itself is dumb (it does completely shut down Life. Not a single card I can think of that Life has that can bypass it at all. Not to mention several other resources get hurt massively by it with not that many ways of dealing with either), and I WILL say that Pieces of Eight/Bretheren of the Coast are more BALANCED versions of that card. At least the player is CAPABLE of doing something other than having a staging area full of nothing they can play from. So therefore, I will say it again....the Es SHOULD have been switched on Deceptive.

Not a single card? Life gets Whimsy, one of the most versatile foundations in the game lol. And it can run TYPFG which also bypasses Yoga, and there's always splashing onto another resource for cards that can stop Yoga more directly.

Should the Es have been switched? Maybe, but then it would've relegated DL to suck tier and Life would lose one of its very few really strong win conditions. :S

Xenomic
07-05-2010, 09:23 PM
I guess my only beef is.....with some resources, I'd rather be able to have stuff WORK with the deck, then spend space on stuff that may or may not even be used if the other stuff isn't even used. Should I use a sideboard? Probably (what was it...15 cards? I don't remember anymore. Been ages). But that's just a hassle to me methinks. Also, as much as I've liked to try it, I've never been a big fan of splashing resources with one another....too gimmicky for my tastes imo...or risky....something.

And going with that....why would you even bother with Whimsy when you have other things that work much better with the deck than that? I SUPPOSE it could be sideboard material, but again....yeeeeah. Also, again....not having access to some cards (TYPFG....big one....) hurts a lot I suppose. Truth be told...I forgot that card even existed to begin with.

Also, wasn't Rejection banned too? :V And also....I don't think Tira's is gonna help with blocking unless you reduce the speed...

Tader_Salad
07-05-2010, 10:12 PM
I guess my only beef is.....with some resources, I'd rather be able to have stuff WORK with the deck, then spend space on stuff that may or may not even be used if the other stuff isn't even used. Should I use a sideboard? Probably (what was it...15 cards? I don't remember anymore. Been ages). But that's just a hassle to me methinks. Also, as much as I've liked to try it, I've never been a big fan of splashing resources with one another....too gimmicky for my tastes imo...or risky....something.

And going with that....why would you even bother with Whimsy when you have other things that work much better with the deck than that? I SUPPOSE it could be sideboard material, but again....yeeeeah. Also, again....not having access to some cards (TYPFG....big one....) hurts a lot I suppose. Truth be told...I forgot that card even existed to begin with.

Also, wasn't Rejection banned too? :V And also....I don't think Tira's is gonna help with blocking unless you reduce the speed...

A couple of important notes. To avoid confusion here are a couple of things you needed to point out at the start: You have a general distaste for including cards into the maindeck that deal with potential threats you may face, since they are not part of the core of what you want the deck to do. You don't use a sideboard; many people here may be operating under the assumption that you do since a vast majority of players do. You prefer not to splash symbols. As to why I'm not sure you seem to be teetering between thinking it's risky/gimmicky. These are all things we did not know from the start.

You do have a reasonable point in that not everyone has access to all the cards, like TYPFG. The thing is, however, multiple people have given multiple card choices and options that cover almost if not every symbol. There have been more cards listed than I can keep track of. Don't be too quick to just dismiss these suggestions they are good. And definetely don't validate your opponants idea but end the sentence with "but again....yeeeeah." It's not very convincing >_<
For a good laugh imagine someone walking up to Martin Luther King in the sixties and saying "Sure the constitution states that ALL men have god-given rights, which should include voting, but again....yeeeah." Wouldn't go over well. :)

Xenomic
07-05-2010, 10:36 PM
I guess another point to bring up is that since my old playgroup has been playing again, they don't have access to what I have, and thus I think they're frustrated over not being able to do anything about it (this being why I brought up Deceptive Look in the first place). While yeah, they probably would run Deceptive as well (I haven't seen them use any so I assume they don't have any....then again, they don't run decks for Deceptive), I just find it unnerving that I myself, who actually RUNS Deceptive, and mains Life, have said what I said (granted, I told the guys that I'd bring it up on the forums here, as I've done with everything else. They're the ones saying it should be banned and whatnot. I just say the Es should be switched, but I've already said that like....4 times in this thread already).

On the access cards things, I guess I SHOULD note that I have NOTHING pass Flames of Fame I believe (I know I have nothing from Shadowar on up).


And again! I will say it...I've NEVER been good at arguing/discussing anything! I'm not a very social person T-T...



And now....one more thing (which SHOULD go to the Q&A thread, but I'mma bring this up if it works now). Resurrection....is it as good as it seems or not? I want to think it's like Finesse, where if you would go to 0 vitality you don't lose the game and it'll bring you back to X vitality or whatever, but I have a feeling it doesn't.

Tagrineth
07-06-2010, 01:01 PM
I just say the Es should be switched, but I've already said that like....4 times in this thread already).

I actually commented on that, it would relegate the card to nigh uselessness. Most people aren't commenting on that because it's pointless, the card isn't a big enough threat to the health of the format.

If YOUR playgroup doesn't have the resources to handle it, then STOP PLAYING IT. Don't be "that guy". :\ 'Cause that's all you really sound like...

Also, I don't understand your iffyiness on Whimsy. You've read the card, right? It does a lot more than just tap random problem foundations... you can pitch your opponent's last card in hand with it, draw an extra card when you have a weak hand, or even ready one of your other foundations for a second shot (or even your character!). It's a phenomenal card no matter how you dice it, so decrying it as too limited to work with your strategy and thus not maindeckable is pretty... strange :|

Finally, no, Resurrection won't bring you back from 0, what it does is gain you a bunch of life before you WOULD get killed. If the damage you would be taking is higher than your max vitality it won't save you. The idea is if you're at 5/20V and your opponent hits for 10, you Resurrection, discarding 2 momentum, gain 8 vitality, go up to 13, and survive the 10.

VikTheSlick
07-06-2010, 01:17 PM
Ninjitsu too is an answer to YM. Opposing Life has things like Chief Hold and Make A Difference that help contain retardedly stupid Deceptive Look decks. I remember there are a few foundations that return the speed to printed before blocking. Tons of amazing damage reduction and/or lifegain available in Legacy.

Steve, Deceptive Look is an extremely powerful card and with Senkyutai especially its one of the best kills in the format for Life (perhaps THE best kill). If its that big a deal, don't use it. Or make decks for your dudes to use out of your own collection. I usually keep 6-8 decks built even when I'm not playing heavily just to bust them out at the store or so on. Or, don't play with it. It's not an NPE or even broken card by any stretch, just very very good.

Xenomic
07-06-2010, 01:34 PM
Hrm. "That guy". Maybe I am being "that guy" using stuffs that my buds can't do much about. I guess I should go with what my buds use too (aside from my 5 decks that I switch from time to time. Gotta keep em fresh, ya know? One for each license that I can do). One of my buds runs Order Guile* (just builds up to the point that all he'll do is block and reversal with Double Somersault Kick. I should be using Beautiful Friendship for that, but I just now recently remembered that card even existed...), while another runs Chaos Blanka* (not that hard to get through...lacks blocks and has low checks), Good Maxi* (is actually what I call a good balanced deck, no pun included), and Earth Astaroth :.: (a very annoying deck...which I'm surprised my Life Ruru** managed to win against, what with Chief Holds and Made Not Borns...). And my last bud runs Evil Tira*** (blargh!), All Terry*** (which is actually decent), and Air Cody*** (more blarg!!!!). And yeah, I don't think a single one of those runs Holding Ground (though I know Terry runs American Made).


Also, when I make my decks, I DO try to make answers to what I put in (for example, against my Life deck, other decks have Holding Ground/American Made. For against my old Good Felicia::, I had cards like Absurd to stop that and Gyulkus back with Earth Astaroth***, and so on and so forth. Granted, I don't really HAVE any answers in the decks for the current Chaos K'*, Water Chun-Li8, and Earth Demitri*...).


And yes, I have read Whimsy. Why iffy? Well....I don't know why. I actually DON'T try to use anything from the PA set for whatever inexplicable reason. And I see with Ressurection. Then I guess I really DON'T have a reason to run that in the decks now. 6/2 is costly unless I really need it x_x

VikTheSlick
07-06-2010, 03:14 PM
Who is running K'? They need to be murdered. That character is LAME.

Xenomic
07-06-2010, 04:03 PM
lol. I'm the one that made K' just to see how dumb he can be. He's pretty dumb. Adopted makes him ever so dumber, but Midnight Pleasure (which Demitri* uses) tells him to sit down and play nicely if he gets it out x_x

Omega
07-06-2010, 04:47 PM
K' is amazing, you hush ;.;

Well...okay, the second one was lame. <<

NJBrock22
07-06-2010, 05:34 PM
*buzzer* K'2 is NOT horrible, we had a K'2 deck that was running rampant in my meta for almost a year and it was a very simple trick:

Wherabouts + Cold & Haughty + Mysterious Past + 1-2 Pure Violence + K' + Void Nova = about 10-15 1M4's and a 1MX+4 at the end of that, and with K's foundations he can hax checks to make sure they can't block. Yeah Mitsu7 can do this a little better but K' started the pokes become huge thread.

N.J.

Omega
07-06-2010, 06:56 PM
Mortal Strike.

Nubian God
07-06-2010, 08:40 PM
*buzzer* K'2 is NOT horrible, we had a K'2 deck that was running rampant in my meta for almost a year and it was a very simple trick:

Wherabouts + Cold & Haughty + Mysterious Past + 1-2 Pure Violence + K' + Void Nova = about 10-15 1M4's and a 1MX+4 at the end of that, and with K's foundations he can hax checks to make sure they can't block. Yeah Mitsu7 can do this a little better but K' started the pokes become huge thread.

N.J.

5 cards a simple trick does not make. Unless you put simple in quotes, then it's cheeky and fun! =D

VikTheSlick
07-06-2010, 09:09 PM
I had him built of Chaos before, ask Tag about that one. So NPE. Start with Hop and also Second Wind (!) is completely stupid with him. You can hack anything to hell plus in Legacy you get Dark Hado and Anti-K'. Eww. Very annoying but that's why Tag Along should be in every sideboard ever for characters that can run it, or maindeck if possible. And Destiny too.

Xenomic
07-06-2010, 09:35 PM
Yeah....now I'm starting to remember some old K' tricks, and he was pretty stupid with them (Second Wind and Hop I forgot about that made him dumb....). Though is K' worse than Akuma? That is the question...

Omega
07-06-2010, 10:00 PM
K' ends your first turn, sooo...yes. =P

Habeck
07-07-2010, 12:07 AM
Add to yoga mastery you lose one life when you respond

Xenomic
07-07-2010, 12:43 AM
Also, anti-K' is totally Galford. Nuff said. lol

Tagrineth
07-07-2010, 01:26 AM
Lol Vik you missed it, after you stopped playing one of the small Legacy tournaments we ran, I built Chaos K' with all the newer jank like Forethought.

I made one guy fail two Olcadan's Mentorings in a row on turns 2 and 3. He scooped.

That was the most BS deck I've ever had the displeasure of playing. Felt so horrible about that.

Edit: Yes, I felt it was more BS than the Master 'sploder Yun-Seong deck I ran for a while, and you know how I felt about that deck at the time.

Xenomic
07-10-2010, 07:16 PM
Alright, so one thing that I looked for on this site and am wondering WHY it's not errated or whatnot.....Yoshimitsu. No, not the character. The asset. NOWHERE did I see it say anything on its ability, nor do I see it errated or banned. So now....I don't know what else to say about it. Considering that I was committing all foundations or discarding all hands during my opponent's turn (though the discard I didn't have to do due to the stupid discard stuff off of Void with Yoshi...), it's REALLY overpowered and needs something if not.

Also, looking at Powerful Style...I think that card is a tad much. Sure, it has to be YOUR attack that deals damage, but when 2 of them or more are out, and when they actually DO hit...going from 6 life to 25 is just....dumb. Granted, there are probably far worse than that, but it's still ridiculous....that's all I have to bring for right now. I'm sure that there'll be more as I play/test decks (currently running Chaos Rose***, Death Bishamon***, Life Nakoruru** still, and Void Yoshimitsu***...).

Tagrineth
07-10-2010, 08:27 PM
yoshimitsu is meh. it's a 5 difficulty asset and it checks a 2. every deck I tried to use it, it was more awkward than actually effective.

and Powerful Style is fine, it actually encourages ATTACKING YOUR OPPONENT and trying to win the game.

Xenomic
07-10-2010, 08:31 PM
True, but the thing with Powerful Style, is that it just drags the games out so long, especially when facing discard decks like the Void Yoshi I have, or another deck that just gains life back so much. I wouldn't have any issue with it IF it wasn't just a free E.

And Yoshimitsu is godly imo. Every time I got it out, it just pretty much wins games for me, especially after I discard my opponent's hand (Terry's 8 cards pretty much goes to 0 thanks to Sogetsu's crap + Ancient Insight + Awakening), I just commit all cards (since there's no cap or whatever on it, so I assume the user can choose how much). Sure, it's a 2, but it's still ridiculous.

Ryken
07-10-2010, 10:18 PM
Yoshimitsu's Asset would be better if it wasn't, you know, Yoshimitsu Only. Granted, the newer Yoshimitsu is DAMN good, and ***Yoshimitsu*** wasn't bad at all, if not very situational. Now, if you could play the asset with anyone, then yeah, ban the hell out of it.

Besides, if you're playing Legacy there is NO shortage of any kinda of discard, especially if you play Void.


2:5 The Ways of Punishment [Death, Evil, Void]
2:5 Perfect Posture [Chaos, Death, Void]
2:5 Ancient Insight [Death, Earth, Void]
2:5 Awakening [Death, Earth, Water]
3:4 Thunderfoot [Death, Fire, Void]
0:4 Saikyo-ryu [All, Death, Void]
3:6 Charisma [All, Order, Void]

And that's just roughly what discard cards you could play in a Void deck to make your opponent's life hell. Discard + Ancient Insight = brutal. Cards like Hidden Base and Hezi Geri and the ever present Shadow Banishment just make them all that more brutal.

So don't get me wrong. Yoshimitsu is a great asset. But as far as discard goes, there are far better options.

Xenomic
07-10-2010, 10:42 PM
It's more like I just use Yoshimitsu to commit their staging area moreso than discard, since I HAVE the discard needed (Thanks to Sogetsu's new crap which is dumbness and a half).

Tagrineth
07-10-2010, 11:04 PM
Or you could use *Dhalsim* and just discard your opponent's hand as a Form. Without having to worry about any silly assets. lol.

but yeah. It's dumb, but as already stated, it's Yoshimitsu only, and you can punish BOTH effects on it now so meh

Xenomic
07-10-2010, 11:09 PM
I could never bring myself to use Dhalsim* cuz he's just....blargh lol.

Ryken
07-11-2010, 12:24 AM
I could never bring myself to use Dhalsim* cuz he's just....blargh lol.

Are you KIDDING? At the cost of destroying 2-3 foundations you got a clear shot with just about everything, barring whatever Foundation trickery. And even THAT can be YM-ed or Lost Memories-ed. Or Ring Veteran-ed.

He was probably one of my favorites from back in the day.