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View Full Version : Breaker. How do you feel it should be used in Standard UFS?



Bloodrunstrue
07-08-2010, 02:18 PM
Evening guys

Anyways, what would normally be my weekly poll (Long overdue and all) will have to be a normal post since according to my laptop the poll option has dissappeared entirely! Where is it! D:

Now on this week's issue; I've been playing various games of standard with Amy and a myriad of other block centric decks and noticed that despite these decks' best attempts at blocking the game still turns into a t2-4 coinflip match regardless.

Breaker has proven to be a useful tool to drag games out longer and (Usually) disrupt combos. I would like to see more of it in the future, particularly set 15, but limited to breaker 2 or 1, because any higher and it starts to get ridiculous. Fast.

So the question I ask the UFS community is how do you feel Breaker should be used in standard?

Thankyou
Bloodrunstrue


1. I want to see more cards with breaker
2. I want to see more symbols have access to breaker
3. I don't want to see much more breaker on cards
4. I don't want any more breaker on cards, it can get insane
5. Other (Tell us in your post plz :) )

Da_ghetto_gamer
07-08-2010, 03:03 PM
Im thinking breaker should exist because its a good mechanic and does give the player using it a slight advantage but it isnt too much where the concept is broken or anything...i like breaker as an overall keyword

but i dont want to see every symbol have access to it...it goes back to what the symbol pie should be....what symbols should have breaker im not so sure of though

Baranor
07-08-2010, 04:43 PM
I think every symbol should have breaker, but it may be stronger in certain symbols. Just a bump of 1 or 2 could be present in any symbol, but you could get a breaker 4 on a card that would be epic. It would probably have specific conditions. Something like this?

C-C-C-Combo Breaker!
Action
2/5 +3M
Combo (Attack)
F: Draw a card
Combo R: Breaker: 4

It gives you a huge bonus, but you have to have blocked an attack with an attack or reversaled. The F: Draw a card is just there to give you a way to get it out of your hand if you need during your turn.

Yoko Charming Fox
07-08-2010, 06:12 PM
1 and 2.

I think that breaker is a great mechanic that is good at disrupting 2nd or 3rd turn kills, without giving to much advantage late game, and I would love to see more of it.

That said I really don't want to see so much breaker that someone can make a deck were they can play a block with breaker on every attack you throw at them. I have a friend who would do that in an instant if enough breaker ever presents itself. So as long as no one goes overboard and I think more breaker would be good for the game.

I would also like to note that I would like to see the block spread get more even, and I would like to see more foundations with good abilities and good block modifiers.

This got better in the last set but there are still symboles like death that are streached for block that are not on attacks.

I got tired of how tons of good foundation in standard have a +3 block modifier. I think that getting more +2 and +1 on foundations with good abilities would allow more decks to run more good blocks and hopefully this would help to extend the game past turn 3 or 4.

Omega
07-08-2010, 08:46 PM
I love Breaker. I don't care how high the rating gets, for the most part (6 would be dumb, obv) - my issue is cards that GIVE things Breaker. One of Amy's foundations gives blocks Breaker:2, which is pretty stupid, given how easy it is to ruin a turn with just two of those.

But I wouldn't mind seeing more random cards with Breaker:3, either.

You ask me, it's Stun, Powerful, and, to a lesser extent, Multiple that need their ratings carefully monitored, rather than Breaker.

Although no card with a rating should ever have a printed rating higher than 3, I think, other than maybe a character-only card/ability (Mitsurugi had an old attack that was Mitsurugi Powerful:4, for example).

Nubian God
07-08-2010, 09:18 PM
1 and 2.

I got tired of how tons of good foundation in standard have a +3 block modifier. I think that getting more +2 and +1 on foundations with good abilities would allow more decks to run more good blocks and hopefully this would help to extend the game past turn 3 or 4.

Part of the reason "good" blocks are rare on foundations is, in part, to help curb the grey wars from beginning anew. With the way things are now, there are fewer auto-includes based on their stats. Also, like in the case of Death, a limited number of blocks in one symbol may encourage a player in dipping into a shared resource. At any rate, good blocks and good foundation abilities should be far and few between. What needs to happen is including better blocks on foundations with moderate or no abilities (like Carefree, but maybe with a 6 check).

As for Breaker, I love the mechanic. I'd like to see a few that have Breaker 3, but on cards that have higher block modifiers, of course (say, +4 or even 5?). I do have to agree that Amy's support has the potential to break the mechanic. Imagine giving a character card two Breaker 2...

VikTheSlick
07-09-2010, 09:04 AM
Breaker is awesome, but should be used with careful mathematically consideration. No more days of "hey, let's throw breaker on Whereabouts, cause it really doesn't do enough". Leg Slash and Two Deadly Rings are great examples of the awesome power of Breaker in Standard.

SMazzurco
07-09-2010, 09:44 AM
... I do have to agree that Amy's support has the potential to break the mechanic. Imagine giving a character card two Breaker 2...

And using her other support card to ensure that the blocked attack deals no dmg...

Bloodrunstrue
07-09-2010, 01:46 PM
Breaker is awesome, but should be used with careful mathematically consideration. No more days of "hey, let's throw breaker on Whereabouts, cause it really doesn't do enough". Leg Slash and Two Deadly Rings are great examples of the awesome power of Breaker in Standard.

God don't remind me, it's like when they decided that Rjection somehow didn't reduce enough damage and slapped Breaker:2 on it. :/

It's good to hear such positive feedback on the breaker mechanic so far everyone :), personally I think that breaker should be printed more often but sparingly so as not to dilute the card pool with breaker abilities, breaker is ind33d fantastic at breaking combos but it can lead to grey wars, which are fine in extended and legacy but are not wanted in standard. :/

Like Vik said, Leg slash and deadly rings are great examples of breaker cards, I would rather have breaker printed on Attacks than foundations since otherwise breaker could be stupid, lastly after testing Amy and Lu chen near to death I can reputably tell you that amy's buffing to breaker abilities really, really, aren't a problem, clogging your card pool as well thogh most certianly is.....

Keep up the discussion
Thankyou
Bloodrunstrue

Yoko Charming Fox
07-09-2010, 06:41 PM
Part of the reason "good" blocks are rare on foundations is, in part, to help curb the grey wars from beginning anew. With the way things are now, there are fewer auto-includes based on their stats. Also, like in the case of Death, a limited number of blocks in one symbol may encourage a player in dipping into a shared resource. At any rate, good blocks and good foundation abilities should be far and few between. What needs to happen is including better blocks on foundations with moderate or no abilities (like Carefree, but maybe with a 6 check).

I agree that really good foundations like For the Money do not need a block lowe than +3. What I was talking about was drop foundations and foundations with good but no amazing ablities. For example I feel that foundations like Envoy of the Queen, From the Halk Alertness, All Life is Prey, Ancient Fighting Style, and Black Giant could have a +2 block and not encourage gray walls.

I realize that this was done to try to curb the meta from block 3, but the early rotation kinda made that plan backfire. I'm not saying that I want +0 and +1 on all foundation, just that I would like to see more cards like Loves Her Blade and The Streangth Within, which have good ablities and good blocks

ShadowDragon
07-09-2010, 09:08 PM
I want Burning Knuckle reprinted...

Viewtiful Joe
07-10-2010, 04:54 AM
I think Breaker needs to be printed on cards that are played specifically for the breaker ability, like the aforemention Two Deadly Rings and Leg Slash, as in, they shouldn't be able to do much else other than the breaker. I actualy think Carefree could have had a Breaker 1 block to make it a little more playable (not that it's terrible in the current lot) because it doesn't do anything else. If a Breaker 3 block or higher is released, it HAS to have either a terrible block modifer, like Regal Bearing, or a terrible check, like Demonic Self Sacrifice Strategem, otherwise it'll encourage the use of one shot kills, because the chances of pulling off a Combo will become near impossible. I don't think they should release Breaker 3 blocks for a while yet. I wouldn't ind seeing a new Burning Knuckle though :D

Da_ghetto_gamer
07-10-2010, 09:34 AM
I want Burning Knuckle reprinted...

My thoughts exactly! If i win legacy worlds thats at the top of my list for reprinting i love that card sooo much!

Bloodrunstrue
07-10-2010, 02:13 PM
Gah! I knew talk of Burning knucle would arise sooner or later.

Hmmm on that note I may have to make a reprint canididate list soon. :P
Also, I wholeheartedly agree with everything Joe said, very good points.

dutpotd
07-10-2010, 03:31 PM
I think breaker is extremely important in standard and really one of the only viable ways a low vitality/high handsize character can last against characters like a well tuned heiachi/jin. It is also a really neat tech granted it usually comes off unseen (although the stuff that gives blocks breaker is usually from the staging area). To me, it is far better than hard negation, granted it takes work and timing to pull off, and makes the speed pumps of some characters (esp. reuasable ones) really worth their weight in gold.

- dut

Omega
07-10-2010, 07:20 PM
On topic: I think the Fortune and Glory Breaker Mai was really well made.

Off topic: Sweet Christ, I want to win Legacy Worlds.

I.

Want.

Ira.

Spinta.

NOW

RockStar
07-11-2010, 01:46 AM
I want Burning Knuckle reprinted...

This. Cos it's awesome!

Bloodrunstrue
07-13-2010, 01:02 PM
SO far Breaker has recieved positive feedback, which is good.

I've also found some more practical uses for breaker by reading your replies, lastly I do NOT want burning knuckle reprinted :D

I need help deciding on this week's poll topic. Help would be much appreciated, drop me a PM.

Thankyou
Bloodrunstrue

HypeMan!
07-17-2010, 11:43 AM
I like Breaker and with the addition of Combo I think it's even more useful and good. So I'd love to see more cards with breaker on them as long as it makes sense, insert Whereabouts example here, and see a little more down with it, I guess similar to burning knuckle but not solely that. That said, I don't want to see ever single symbol have great breaker, like anything in the game, the symbol spread must be respected and adhered to. Good breaker symbols: Good, Water, etc, Bad ones: probably Fire.

So short response:
Breaker Good. More Breaker, but not more symbols with breaker. Diversify the use of breaker past it's default.

Bloodrunstrue
07-18-2010, 02:25 PM
I like Breaker and with the addition of Combo I think it's even more useful and good. So I'd love to see more cards with breaker on them as long as it makes sense, insert Whereabouts example here, and see a little more down with it, I guess similar to burning knuckle but not solely that. That said, I don't want to see ever single symbol have great breaker, like anything in the game, the symbol spread must be respected and adhered to. Good breaker symbols: Good, Water, etc, Bad ones: probably Fire.

So short response:
Breaker Good. More Breaker, but not more symbols with breaker. Diversify the use of breaker past it's default.

Yeah I agree with this.

I love how breaker really works agianst the combo keyword without completely nullifying it, since the player could extend to make the combo and possibly suffer next turn, also breaker works really well since it isn't the end all by all defense like dmage reduction was back in block 3.

An issue i'd like to highlight on Breaker is that if you block with breaker then proceed to play a reversal and your opponent attempts to block then does this essentially undermine the point of breaker? particularly when the block in question fails?

Also breaker will be fine so long as it never gets printed Breaker:3.

TripsEX
07-18-2010, 07:16 PM
:):):):) it, let's just throw it on every card in the format and go to town. YEAH!

JinKazama
07-18-2010, 07:54 PM
The breaker rating on anything should be lower than its block modifier

Birch
07-18-2010, 10:49 PM
I think 2 sounds good. but not too much. Two many cards with breaker could just get rediculous reallly fast. I like the pace of the game as is and i think more breaker slows down a game that IMO is at its best when its fast paced.

HypeMan!
07-19-2010, 01:43 PM
An issue i'd like to highlight on Breaker is that if you block with breaker then proceed to play a reversal and your opponent attempts to block then does this essentially undermine the point of breaker? particularly when the block in question fails?

Also breaker will be fine so long as it never gets printed Breaker:3.

Breaker 3 I have no big qualms with, as with any breaker over 1, playing a foundation to counter it is imo a decent reaction and safe play. But past that, like breaker 4 or something, that's a little bit of risky territory in my mind. Having the breaker reflect the block mod is a good move, like +0 never having a breaker, or a +4/5 having a 3 *maybe* a 4. Or maybe a card with an ability like "R: After blocking an (zone) attack with this card, this card gains "Breaker: X". X equals the block modifier of this card." Coupled with cards the mess with the block modifier, raising or lowering it. I love the idea of abilities that do interesting/weird techy things. Yo:):):):)ora2's "E: Add 2 face down cards...." is one of my favorite abilities in the game, for the idea and implementation of it alone, also like Sakura3 lowering block mods. Cool idea, though bad static implementation. There's a lot of systems running through the game that haven't really been experimented and played with much past their original inception.

Also, as for Breaker and Reversal blocks, I'd expect it to react that way, do you want to deal some damage to your opponent, clog his pool more but change the chances of him passing or failing his continued turn? In a purely non-cheese sense, it should work that way. Next card your opponent plays gets +Breaker rating to difficult, clean and simple. It's up to you to decide how that manifests itself and what cards it effects. All the glory of how UFS is the best TCG system around.