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Nfxon
01-27-2012, 08:25 AM
Can we expect to see regular updates on this? Maybe IRC being a solid place to put that information out as well. Good luck fewls!

I just want info!

Zardis
01-27-2012, 01:32 PM
They usually make a thread and start posting there on the breaks or when they finish up a match. Dont worry, u will get info xP

Cetonis
01-27-2012, 04:15 PM
Legacy had 14 people show up, so it was a top 4 cut:

Garrett Brett - Nakoruru
Andrew Olexa - Andrew Olexa*
Scott Sundman - Rock Howard
AJ Murray - Alex

madeofwin
01-27-2012, 05:02 PM
Interesting line up of characters, guessing promo versions of alex and nakoruru, amazed at a rock howard doing that well, would be intruiged to see a list for it at some point.

Hatman
01-27-2012, 05:07 PM
Only 14 people for Legacy? Damn.

Tader_Salad
01-27-2012, 05:34 PM
Ppl skipped legacy cuz they haters. Haters gonna hate lol. Cereal though the rock howard deck played 80+ cards, get at that lol

madeofwin
01-28-2012, 03:57 AM
nice :) in that case i'm guessing its the promo version of rock howard then? nice to see him getting played at a high level

Grizzlegrom
01-28-2012, 09:30 AM
Only 14 people for Legacy? Damn.

I wanted to go but couldn't make the event due to the cost of traveling to vegas :(

Rider kick
01-28-2012, 11:38 AM
Ditto, on top of not having enough time off from my work and money is still short since i'm still doing holiday recovery.

Ken_Masters
01-28-2012, 07:37 PM
Anyone know how things are going today? How many people showed/what standing are currently?

BlackFireDragon
01-28-2012, 08:01 PM
Just heard from Birch alittle bit, they are either in 5th round now or going into it. 26 people showed, all formats top cuts are being done tomorrow.

ATLDrew
01-28-2012, 08:28 PM
Just heard from the ever handsome Jeremy Ray. Here are some standings prior to fifth round.
Birch 2-2 with King.
Olexa 2-1-1 with Andrew Olexa.
Jeremy Ray 3-1 with Jon Herr.
Dutpotd aka Garrett aka why the hell can't you ever just lose 4-0 with RIGHTEOUSNESS Amy.
Sean Toysa, AJ and RockStar all caught a run of bad luck when they had to play each in 2 consecutive rounds. I think AJ may still be in with Water Morathi but Sean's tourney life was looking grim.
West Coast is looking really good. Lots of super fast decks.
Jeremy said that meta was VERY fast. Most decks were running 8 checks of 2 or less, half the decks in the field were running Playful Slice, and every other deck was playing the Life, Water, and Good attacks of power. For instance, RockStar and AJ played a match where for two games straight, neither player resolved a foundation and won on turn 2 and the final game saw 3 foundations on both sides and then a Double Playful Slice into Typhoon draw.

I will post up stuff as i find it out. Good luck to my Michigonians and that giant wiener Garrett.

Rider kick
01-28-2012, 08:53 PM
Sweet go Garret.

ATLPiglet
01-28-2012, 09:03 PM
No Go Nick and Birch!!!

Grizzlegrom
01-28-2012, 09:48 PM
No Go Nick and Birch!!!

Good to see some new blood getting up there hopefully we get the king of twilight castle lol :P you should be in support of this piglet :p

ATLPiglet
01-28-2012, 09:56 PM
Wait until Twilight Saga 3 pigwolfs revenge comes out

Grizzlegrom
01-28-2012, 09:59 PM
Wait until Twilight Saga 3 pigwolfs revenge comes out

What about Pigpires? they are serious time lol

ATLPiglet
01-28-2012, 10:05 PM
Na im his werewolf rival

Grizzlegrom
01-28-2012, 10:10 PM
Na im his werewolf rival

So your art for your action is going to be friends and rivals with you and garett? lol

Cetonis
01-28-2012, 11:07 PM
Standard top 8:

1) Garrett - Amy
2) Iari - Truong
3) Anthony - Omar
4) Kevin - Mike Lowe
5) Marcus - Sevastian
6) Jeremy - Jon Herr
7) Andrew - Andrew Olexa
8) Tim - Kazuya Mishima

Ravnos
01-28-2012, 11:16 PM
Gl tim we are all rootin for ya

Grizzlegrom
01-28-2012, 11:28 PM
Standard top 8:

1) Garrett - Amy
2) Iari - Truong
3) Anthony - Omar
4) Kevin - Mike Lowe
5) Marcus - Sevastian
6) Jeremy - Jon Herr
7) Andrew - Andrew Olexa
8) Tim - Kazuya Mishima

Nice top 8 out of curiousity what symbol is Troung off of?

dart132
01-28-2012, 11:36 PM
Standard top 8:

1) Garrett - Amy
2) Iari - Truong
3) Anthony - Omar
4) Kevin - Mike Lowe
5) Marcus - Sevastian
6) Jeremy - Jon Herr
7) Andrew - Andrew Olexa
8) Tim - Kazuya Mishima

Oh yeah! Good Job Iari and Marcus! Way to represent the West Coast!

Is Standard done now? Or are they continuing tomorrow?

Grizzlegrom
01-28-2012, 11:37 PM
Oh yeah! Good Job Iari and Marcus! Way to represent the West Coast!

Is Standard done now? Or are they continuing tomorrow?

I think all top eights tomorrow

ATLPiglet
01-29-2012, 12:14 AM
Lets go marcus! Lets go marcus!!!!

GTORules
01-29-2012, 03:16 AM
I see no info on team nats here so i figure i would throw it out right quick.

Team Nats was won by myself Matt McDannel, Jeremy Ray, and Phil Birch.

Shinji Mimura
01-29-2012, 03:52 AM
What is Truong?

Doji_Mike
01-29-2012, 05:32 AM
What is Truong?

Truong
7/19
evil life water

E: this attack gets +2 damage. If this is the second time you have played this ability this turn all of your opponents attacks get +1 damage until the start of your next turn.

R: Commit, Discard 1 momentum: after your opponent plays an attack discard it from their cardpool. Your opponents attacks get +1 damage until the start of you next turn.

That is how i remember it. Not 100% sure on the wording of the duration but it is definately something along those lines.

Rider kick
01-29-2012, 08:44 AM
In other words RETARDED!

Zardis
01-29-2012, 09:21 AM
Is Truong a 7HS Nightmare all over again? Oh Noes D:

Also I have never even heard/read about this card WTH O.O

Grizzlegrom
01-29-2012, 09:59 AM
I see no info on team nats here so i figure i would throw it out right quick.

Team Nats was won by myself Matt McDannel, Jeremy Ray, and Phil Birch.

good work team Michigan =) also what characters did you guys use?

Hatman
01-29-2012, 10:13 AM
Is Truong a 7HS Nightmare all over again? Oh Noes D:

Also I have never even heard/read about this card WTH O.O
Newest promo.

BlackFireDragon
01-29-2012, 10:28 AM
I see no info on team nats here so i figure i would throw it out right quick.

Team Nats was won by myself Matt McDannel, Jeremy Ray, and Phil Birch.

Congrats guys, glad to see more fame for Michigan.

ATLDrew
01-29-2012, 10:38 AM
Iari's Truong is Water. And yeah the character is really good.

Grats to Jeremy, Matt, and Birch. You need to call your asset the handsome men's club or the league of extraordinary gentlemen. Just saying.

GTORules
01-29-2012, 11:15 AM
good work team Michigan =) also what characters did you guys use?

I used Mei Lien. Jeremy Ray used Jon Herr. Phil Birch used King.

Seiryux02
01-29-2012, 11:35 AM
What symbol did you play mei lin?

Grizzlegrom
01-29-2012, 11:47 AM
What symbol did you play mei lin?

Pretty sure the deck they had was order

Shinji Mimura
01-29-2012, 01:19 PM
In other words RETARDED!

Yeah, definitely not a huge fan. Well, there's certainly no confusion as to why that person is currently in 2nd.

Grizzlegrom
01-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Yeah, definitely not a huge fan. Well, there's certainly no confusion as to why that person is currently in 2nd.

Sweet nothings on a character card and basically a free +2 damage on all attacks if run like a mike lowe/xianhua life kick or something similar your opponent will be dead before they get to their turn with bonus damage

makingsenseofus
01-29-2012, 02:18 PM
So is there a declared legacy winner yet?

Grizzlegrom
01-29-2012, 02:23 PM
I just got a message on facebook from Marcus it's Olexa and Garett in finals of legacy

BlackFireDragon
01-29-2012, 04:04 PM
Standard Top 4

Garrett - Amy vs Andrew - Andrew Olexa

Kevin - Mike Lowe vs Jeremy - Jon Herr

Grizzlegrom
01-29-2012, 04:05 PM
Standard Top 4

Garrett - Amy vs Andrew - Andrew Olexa

Kevin - Mike Lowe vs Jeremy - Jon Herr


Amy is the only non-champ card in top cuts :( lol

JavelinChimera
01-29-2012, 04:07 PM
Awesome, it's getting to the point where you gotta win a major in order to make a card... that can win a major

On that note, I really really really hope Amy wins. But then maybe I'm just bitter because I can't freakin get anyone to respond to me about getting Jon Herr! >:C

BlackFireDragon
01-29-2012, 04:18 PM
Awesome, it's getting to the point where you gotta win a major in order to make a card... that can win a major

On that note, I really really really hope Amy wins. But then maybe I'm just bitter because I can't freakin get anyone to respond to me about getting Jon Herr! >:C

I'd like to see her win too, but I've got to root for my fellow michiganians... Plus it would be pretty funny if Andrew won another character card with his brand new one... which he will then use to win the 4th one... and after the 5th one he will be able to stack them all together to form Voltron Olexa

ATLDrew
01-29-2012, 04:18 PM
Awesome, it's getting to the point where you gotta win a major in order to make a card... that can win a major

On that note, I really really really hope Amy wins. But then maybe I'm just bitter because I can't freakin get anyone to respond to me about getting Jon Herr! >:C

You're right. It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Andrew, Garrett, and Jeremy are 3 of the best players in UFS. :P

They just happen to be all very viable 7HS characters. 7HS wins championships.

makingsenseofus
01-29-2012, 04:23 PM
so who is the new legacy champ? cmon guys! we need info, this is gahbage

BlackFireDragon
01-29-2012, 04:28 PM
so who is the new legacy champ? cmon guys! we need info, this is gahbage

Birch said they arnt doing Legacy until after Standard. I think Kirk's guy may have ment Standard.

JavelinChimera
01-29-2012, 04:40 PM
You're right. It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Andrew, Garrett, and Jeremy are 3 of the best players in UFS. :P

They just happen to be all very viable 7HS characters. 7HS wins championships.

Psshh, naw, them guys are all freeee. They have to have them champ cards to get more champ cards. The first time it happens is cause of whimsical pixie dust demon magic.

I really just want to see Amy win because I've used her so much, and because she's not Eva. Also, I'm all for Voltron Olexa, so that would be acceptable as well. My champion card point is moot anyways, we all know Garrett is running a playset of Long Moon Title.

bloodocean
01-29-2012, 06:08 PM
Amy wins in round 3 with 1hp left. As close as it gets lol.

syclic
01-29-2012, 06:09 PM
I vote for an Amy deck, assuming righteousness is legal.


I'd be alright with any deck using an AOP though.

I see i was spot on.

BlackFireDragon
01-29-2012, 06:40 PM
Just heard from Birch
Top 4:
Amy over Olexa
Mike Lowe over Jon Herr

Top 2:
Amy over Mike Lowe

AMY WINS!!!

Also Andrew Olexa won Legacy

way to go Michigan for taking 2/3 events

makingsenseofus
01-29-2012, 07:02 PM
CONGRATS GARRETT AND ANDREW!!!

also, canada takes US nats for the second time. Alright US guys, time to jump the border and take it back.

Rider kick
01-29-2012, 07:28 PM
Nice, congrats guys.

RockStar
01-29-2012, 07:40 PM
Hey Y'all,

RockStar here, checkin' in. Vegas/Nats was an absolute blast! Had a chance to reconnect with some really fine folk i met at last year's Nats. I'm super happy that I played the way I know I can, and didn't scrub out (like I did last year). Congrats to all the tournament winners: Garrent, Olexa, and Team Michigan!! I'll write up a more complete tournament report when I get home. Was very glad to be able to rep the West Coast as well as I did!

For the record, right quick: I call my Truong deck the Super Saiyan deck, bc the entire end-game strategy was to sandbag into Morathi for game 2 and 3. The main reason for this is because AJ (The Hurricane) is my boy, and we do a lot of deck building and play testing together, and I didn't want us to go diversity against each other. Also of note, Truong won me a grand total of 2 hands all tournament long.

More later, but two nifty facts about my play experience: Thru 5 rounds of Swiss, I lost every opening die roll off with the lone exception of my 1st Round. Also, 4 out of 5 rounds, the decisive round ended in my favor because my opponent Morathi'd a finishing attack they couldn't block.

Too crazy! I had some ridiculous games, and I can't wait to share some stories! Lastly, I hope people stop hatin' on Water, because this symbol is so stupid tech right now, it ain't even FUNNY!

From Vegas,
RockStar

JavelinChimera
01-29-2012, 08:32 PM
I can't stop hating on it until it stops FAILING ME >:C I don't know what I'm doing wrong either, that's the worst part... Though I'm sure a playset of Playful Slice that I've never owned a single copy of (Thanks Quest boxes!) would probably help.

Anyways, cool beans for Amy. I'm curious though, what does she have going that makes Righteousness better with her over any other Good character? I'm not seeing it.

DabalRowRaizah
01-29-2012, 09:46 PM
Standard top 8:

1) Garrett - Amy
2) Iari - Truong
3) Anthony - Omar
4) Kevin - Mike Lowe
5) Marcus - Sevastian
6) Jeremy - Jon Herr
7) Andrew - Andrew Olexa
8) Tim - Kazuya Mishima

maybe a bit late but....KICKING ***** top 8!? congrats Anthony! and congrats to all the other top players too

Shinji Mimura
01-29-2012, 10:51 PM
Anyways, cool beans for Amy. I'm curious though, what does she have going that makes Righteousness better with her over any other Good character? I'm not seeing it.

Amy was already awesome without Righteousness. Her + Throne Room = nothing gets blocked evar. Righteousness not only gives her a good attack, but is amazing defensively, which helps given her health.

Glad my favorite symbol finally won something.

JavelinChimera
01-30-2012, 12:17 AM
I know why Amy is good, like I said, I've used her many times. But anyone can use Throne Room and some Amaryllis Spins and make a Good attack unblockable. I guess I could see it's enhance causing you to drop so many more foundations making her that much harder to kill long game (though one can get around the breaker 2 easy enough at times), and giving you the extra checks and potential damage pump on a kill turn. I really just want to see the deck list.

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 12:32 AM
I really just want to see the deck list.

Home.

I'll post it tonight before I go to bed. Also, it's unfortunate I didn't get to play the Legacy final due to my own time constraints, I believe Olexa's deck would have taken it despite the fact I luckily 1-0'd it in swiss - i.e., there is no way my luck could continue (I'll put up a tourney report soon and you'll see).

That said, Olexa and I will have to play it out for fun in the future. LEGACY is insanely fun right now, and frankly that should be videotaped as well because they make for very entertaining games in most cases!!!

Legacy and Standard where the most fun/tense UFS games of my life this weekend except for anytime I play Kirk Polka (which aside from when I play against Mike Lowe, are actually the craziest games ever). This statement is scary considering the kind of stale card pool, the new sets will make this game even MORE interesting.

- dut

Hatman
01-30-2012, 10:33 AM
CONGRATS GARRETT AND ANDREW!!!

also, canada takes US nats for the second time. Alright US guys, time to jump the border and take it back.
We would need an actual event for this to happen.

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 10:41 AM
We would need an actual event for this to happen.

Yeah, we should have one out by you/Ontario region Hatman, assuming things pick up post KOF license releases and all. I know I'd be willing to help out the best I could from way out West, and I would obviously attend at the very least.

Hatman
01-30-2012, 10:49 AM
Yeah, we should have one out by you/Ontario region Hatman, assuming things pick up post KOF license releases and all. I know I'd be willing to help out the best I could from way out West, and I would obviously attend at the very least.
The problem (and I'll keep this short because this isn't the thread for that) is that we (our playgroup) cannot run it as we have some guarantees that if it is done over here, a ton of well-known people won't show up and to be honest, I don't want to run a tournament for one of the biggest prizes in UFS if the competition isn't on the level. Bizarro UFS Montreal may be, but our track record in tournaments show that we're not playing the game proper.

I'm not saying we couldn't actually help out in running the tournament - just that it cannot be held here due to various considerations.

Still, grats on your win and grats on the Canadian Grand Finals!

makingsenseofus
01-30-2012, 10:49 AM
Glad my favorite symbol finally won something.

worlds 2011?

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 10:55 AM
Amy was already awesome without Righteousness. Her + Throne Room = nothing gets blocked evar. Righteousness not only gives her a good attack, but is amazing defensively, which helps given her health.

Glad my favorite symbol finally won something.

As you know, my favorite symbol too. Throne Room is a very good card and is essentially a +4 speed to your attacks if you sucessfully enhance with Amy on an attack with a block mod. HOWEVER, it is a huge double edged sword in the meta currently. Namely, any deck that runs those fancy attacks without enhance phases (see Concussion Blast) is super deadly once this drops, because it comes at you without an enhance phase at essentially +2 speed.

- dut

S_OBrien
01-30-2012, 11:04 AM
The problem (and I'll keep this short because this isn't the thread for that) is that we (our playgroup) cannot run it as we have some guarantees that if it is done over here, a ton of well-known people won't show up and to be honest, I don't want to run a tournament for one of the biggest prizes in UFS if the competition isn't on the level. Bizarro UFS Montreal may be, but our track record in tournaments show that we're not playing the game proper.

I'm not saying we couldn't actually help out in running the tournament - just that it cannot be held here due to various considerations.

Still, grats on your win and grats on the Canadian Grand Finals!

I am trying to push Jason for a Toronto Canadian Nats. It think the competition would be very good. Michigan, New York/Jersey, and ATL would be there for sure. So, I think the competition would be fierce.

Also, Congrats once again to all of the champions. But, heed my warning, next time, Rochester will not be bringing home second place prizes!

Sketch
01-30-2012, 11:33 AM
As you know, my favorite symbol too. Throne Room is a very good card and is essentially a +4 speed to your attacks if you sucessfully enhance with Amy on an attack with a block mod. HOWEVER, it is a huge double edged sword in the meta currently. Namely, any deck that runs those fancy attacks without enhance phases (see Concussion Blast) is super deadly once this drops, because it comes at you without an enhance phase at essentially +2 speed.

- dut

As a frequent abuser of Concussion Blast and Knee-Capper, there are few things I like seeing more than my opponent plunking down a copy of Throne Room.

Congrats on the win, dude!

ScottGaines
01-30-2012, 11:44 AM
Great job to everyone! Can't wait to join this madness in vegas next year! Gonna be sexy!

Hatman
01-30-2012, 12:33 PM
I am trying to push Jason for a Toronto Canadian Nats. It think the competition would be very good. Michigan, New York/Jersey, and ATL would be there for sure. So, I think the competition would be fierce.
We'd definitely try to show up in force, potentially bringing most members of Team Phail if that were to happen.

The Hurricane
01-30-2012, 12:34 PM
Nats was a great time. Legacy was a blast! The Muuuuj scrubbed out during teams and we had a harsh breakup. I pretty much told him I am leaving him for his older brother version. It was sad. Morathi had a tough tourney and barely missed top cuts. Oh whale.

Good times.

Phil Birch you're my boy!!!

Tourney report to come...

Hurricane out

Birch
01-30-2012, 03:05 PM
<3 you to Hurricane. And glad Michigan could put up a few wins this weekend. I'm proud of everyone and it was super cool hanging with all those west coast players

Grizzlegrom
01-30-2012, 03:28 PM
<3 you to Hurricane. And glad Michigan could put up a few wins this weekend. I'm proud of everyone and it was super cool hanging with all those west coast players

Another from Michigan on cardboard way to keep it here this time :)

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 03:36 PM
Another from Michigan on cardboard way to keep it here this time :)

Man - we have a few hotbed UFS <North American> areas that are competing for supremecy: Michigan, West Coast, Atlanta, UFS House (if they aren't completely retired) etc. I feel like a free agent in this lol. With the new starters I'm going to try to boost interest in my area too, that said I think the license and cards will be a bigger draw so lets hope and help Jasco Games get on it!

I also want to travel east for future UK events. Gonna have to pay attention to any information on this.

Grizzlegrom
01-30-2012, 03:47 PM
Man - we have a few hotbed UFS <North American> areas that are competing for supremecy: Michigan, West Coast, Atlanta, UFS House (if they aren't completely retired) etc. I feel like a free agent in this lol. With the new starters I'm going to try to boost interest in my area too, that said I think the license and cards will be a bigger draw so lets hope and help Jasco Games get on it!

I also want to travel east for future UK events. Gonna have to pay attention to any information on this.

I'll soon be in the group as well, but it'll always make for a funny story for teams the guy from Michigan is the Canadian champ and the Canadian guy is the US champ. lol

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 03:51 PM
I'll soon be in the group as well, but it'll always make for a funny story for teams the guy from Michigan is the Canadian champ and the Canadian guy is the US champ. lol

And our 3rd is 'just' Matt Kohls lol (well at least on our upcoming team asset).

Grizzlegrom
01-30-2012, 03:55 PM
And our 3rd is 'just' Matt Kohls lol (well at least on our upcoming team asset).

I didn't mean on the team asset lol I meant just us as a team in general since Matt is property of UFS house also I just thought of something kind of interesting lol we are the second team to all have cardboard and an asset also we have all three different types Us, Canadian and World :P

Grizzlegrom
01-30-2012, 03:58 PM
Also I'd like to throw out Michigan finally has an asset not named Wonderworld!!! :)

failed2k
01-30-2012, 04:51 PM
Had a great time, and I'm really proud of the team, I'm going to try hard not to be lazy and give a full nice tournament report with my decklist, matchups for all formats, and even Gambling master(where I defended my gambling master title).

I want to point out that the Winning team of nats this year (Matt Mcdannel - Mei Lein, Myself - Jon Herr, Phil Birch - King) featured zero copies of the following cards

Revoke
Harnassing Chaos
Damnation
Playful Slice
Dragon Lifter
Wheel Kick
Concussion Blast
Piercing Howl
Any Attack of Power.

The meta is a wide open book, and you're allowed to write your own story ufs players.

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 04:54 PM
The meta is a wide open book, and you're allowed to write your own story ufs players.

I do think this is a pretty accurate statement. Anyone witnessing any of my games would know things were as close as possible, I didn't dominate, I just edged over my opponents ever so slightly in almost every game all weekend.

BUT this doesn't mean I won't rip up more copies of Zi Mei and Piercing Howl :)

Grizzlegrom
01-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Had a great time, and I'm really proud of the team, I'm going to try hard not to be lazy and give a full nice tournament report with my decklist, matchups for all formats, and even Gambling master(where I defended my gambling master title).

I want to point out that the Winning team of nats this year (Matt Mcdannel - Mei Lein, Myself - Jon Herr, Phil Birch - King) featured zero copies of the following cards

Revoke
Harnassing Chaos
Damnation
Playful Slice
Dragon Lifter
Wheel Kick
Concussion Blast
Piercing Howl
Any Attack of Power.

The meta is a wide open book, and you're allowed to write your own story ufs players.

Impressive sir I do like how diverse your team was too a 5,6,7 an interesting combonation

dutpotd
01-30-2012, 05:13 PM
Impressive sir I do like how diverse your team was too a 5,6,7 an interesting combonation

Yeah, they really did a good job with teams this year.

ATLPiglet
01-30-2012, 08:10 PM
I missed seeing all you guys but I will def see y'all soon. And in case you folks didn't know garetts deck was an Atlanta brain child. So atlanta doesn't even need to go to tournaments to win lol. But congrats to all you guys I'm so glad birch one cause now earth will be op haha Jeremy and McDaniel def deserved it too. And Garett is the nicest guy ever too but he's Canadian with the us title which is not cool haha. And olexa well yeah he's cool but I'm still mad salty about the ass whouping he gave me at worlds <3 congrats to all you guys you all really deserved your wins brothers

JavelinChimera
01-30-2012, 09:18 PM
I want to point out that the Winning team of nats this year (Matt Mcdannel - Mei Lein, Myself - Jon Herr, Phil Birch - King) featured zero copies of the following cards

Revoke
Harnassing Chaos
Damnation
Playful Slice
Dragon Lifter
Wheel Kick
Concussion Blast
Piercing Howl
Any Attack of Power.

The meta is a wide open book, and you're allowed to write your own story ufs players.

This is amazing, and why I love UFS now more than ever.

DaiAndOh
01-30-2012, 11:04 PM
Man - we have a few hotbed UFS <North American> areas that are competing for supremecy: Michigan, West Coast, Atlanta, UFS House (if they aren't completely retired) etc. I feel like a free agent in this lol. With the new starters I'm going to try to boost interest in my area too, that said I think the license and cards will be a bigger draw so lets hope and help Jasco Games get on it!

I also want to travel east for future UK events. Gonna have to pay attention to any information on this.

Does that make NYC the grumpy old men?

Vanguard
01-31-2012, 01:50 AM
I want to point out that the Winning team of nats this year (Matt Mcdannel - Mei Lein, Myself - Jon Herr, Phil Birch - King) featured zero copies of the following cards

Revoke
Harnassing Chaos
Damnation
Playful Slice
Dragon Lifter
Wheel Kick
Concussion Blast
Piercing Howl
Any Attack of Power.

The meta is a wide open book, and you're allowed to write your own story ufs players.

This is great news for the game ! Thank YOU. :D

TripsEX
01-31-2012, 03:06 AM
I failed us in teams Andrew and Garett !!

Yeah. Nats was off the :o:o:o:oing chain and I will have a report up soon.

Vanguard
01-31-2012, 03:48 AM
I would personnaly like to see the list for the Water Truong that made it to the top cuts... :D

FenMiHuo
01-31-2012, 08:02 AM
I would personnaly like to see the list for the Water Truong that made it to the top cuts... :D

If you read what was said earlier it wasnt really water truong but a sandbagging water morathi deck.

Hatman
01-31-2012, 10:05 AM
Still mad as :):):):) that 7HS STILL dominates.

RockStar
01-31-2012, 10:06 AM
If you read what was said earlier it wasnt really water truong but a sandbagging water morathi deck.

This is a true story. Until Nats, I've never used sandbagging as a strategy, because I just don't believe in it. And, truth to tell, my initial idea for Truong was that he could play Morathi's style of Water Rush nearly identically. After play-testing that idea extensively I found that i was mostly right, but that Morathi could simply do it better. I only decided to run with Super Saiyan Truong the day-of the Standard Singles event, and only with AJ's blessing (creator of the original Water Morathi, first piloted competitively at Worlds 2011 to a 10th place finish due to diversity).

Since Tides of Vengeance is going to drop soon, and because of all the cool swag I got for participating and for placing well, I'm going to actually play test more extensively with Morathi.

Truong I think is going to be a threat because he can be a hard counter for one attack. Also, because some of Vespera's tech is going to make his free damage pump even nastier (i'm looking at you, Dual Persona!). His best build will be different than Morathi's tho, methinks.

I'll ask AJ if I can post my build, since it is founded on his tech.

Rider kick
01-31-2012, 10:37 AM
Man - we have a few hotbed UFS <North American> areas that are competing for supremecy: Michigan, West Coast, Atlanta, UFS House (if they aren't completely retired) etc. I feel like a free agent in this lol. With the new starters I'm going to try to boost interest in my area too, that said I think the license and cards will be a bigger draw so lets hope and help Jasco Games get on it!

I also want to travel east for future UK events. Gonna have to pay attention to any information on this.

Dickson TN is getting up there....eventually.

Cetonis
01-31-2012, 11:20 AM
Still mad as :):):):) that 7HS STILL dominates.

Well, there were 3 6HS in top 8, which is one more than Worlds iirc. I think it's getting pretty close to being balanced - with 7HS you run the risk of randomly being blown up by an opponent's strong draw, while with 6HS your own draws are less consistent. This was the story for me, as that jerk Kazuya finally backstabbed me and refused to show up against Amy. I think he knew he would just be scooping to yet another Truong if he won, so he decided to stay home instead :P

dutpotd
01-31-2012, 11:41 AM
Well, there were 3 6HS in top 8, which is one more than Worlds iirc. I think it's getting pretty close to being balanced - with 7HS you run the risk of randomly being blown up by an opponent's strong draw, while with 6HS your own draws are less consistent. This was the story for me, as that jerk Kazuya finally backstabbed me and refused to show up against Amy. I think he knew he would just be scooping to yet another Truong if he won, so he decided to stay home instead :P

If anything, Truong, and character cards like him, that negate a 6hs'ers ability to play more than one (if one) attack a turn, are the new bane of the format and what will keep 6hs from competing.

I had an amazing amount of luck winning this weekend, as I'm sure you are aware Kazuya is not a good matchup for a deck that defends and attacks based on having large amounts of staging area support.

- dut

Hatman
01-31-2012, 11:55 AM
Well, there were 3 6HS in top 8, which is one more than Worlds iirc.
I count Kazuya and Omar, the rest is 7HS. None of them made top 4. Worst part is I think none of the 6HS from ToV are even going to remotely change that.

Cetonis
01-31-2012, 11:57 AM
Missed Sevastian

dutpotd
01-31-2012, 12:00 PM
I count Kazuya and Omar, the rest is 7HS. None of them made top 4. Worst part is I think none of the 6HS from ToV are even going to remotely change that.

Vespera is broken, Nehtali is busted, Grey will be a dark horse and with luck can be crazy. And I will be playing Alice.

Hatman
01-31-2012, 01:18 PM
Vespera is broken, Nehtali is busted, Grey will be a dark horse and with luck can be crazy. And I will be playing Alice.
And yet next event will be 7HS aplenty once again. Then again if that was my only gripe with the game I'd be gravy.

dutpotd
01-31-2012, 01:35 PM
And yet next event will be 7HS aplenty once again. Then again if that was my only gripe with the game I'd be gravy.

Maybe, with my recent win, I'll make a competitive 6hs character just to appease you and the rest of the haters Hatman :)

Vanguard
01-31-2012, 02:04 PM
HATman... uh... HATers gonna hate. :D

Hatman
01-31-2012, 02:42 PM
Maybe, with my recent win, I'll make a competitive 6hs character just to appease you and the rest of the haters Hatman :)
Considering I don't think I've ever seen you play anything under 7HS, I'd rather you do something that pleases you than something that's just for me. Besides I've plenty to hate on about the current game format, mainly the lack of any deck-type that I can actually pilot well, or that I actually like with ToV doing pretty much nothing to change that at this moment.

dutpotd
01-31-2012, 02:55 PM
Considering I don't think I've ever seen you play anything under 7HS, I'd rather you do something that pleases you than something that's just for me. Besides I've plenty to hate on about the current game format, mainly the lack of any deck-type that I can actually pilot well, or that I actually like with ToV doing pretty much nothing to change that at this moment.

?? I played and won with Alex for the longest time 2009-2010, I finished 3rd in 2009 worlds with Talbain 6hs. Before that my first foray into teams was 6hs Cammy. And team worlds 2011 (last gencon) I played King to a top 8 finish.

Hatman
01-31-2012, 02:59 PM
Yeah, results for tournament I didn't take a part in I tend to forget.

dutpotd
01-31-2012, 03:11 PM
Yeah, results for tournament I didn't take a part in I tend to forget.

Haha, okay then, you were at Cannats 2009 (the last one held I believe) when I was running Alex so don't be a bum - I was tied for 8th but Shajir's Gill got in on Strength of Schedule over me mostly because Brian royally scrubbed out with Cassandra :) , Polka went on to win it as Mignon, just one of the many decks siding into Chun Li that weren't Chun Li.

Hatman
01-31-2012, 03:12 PM
Haha, okay then, you were at Cannats 2009 (the last one held I believe) when I was running Alex so don't be a bum - I was tied for 8th but Shajir's Gill got in on Strength of Schedule over me mostly because Brian royally scrubbed out with Cassandra :) , Polka went on to win it as Mignon, just one of the many decks siding into Chun Li that weren't Chun Li.
I was last table with Brian. Don't remind me.

Shinji Mimura
01-31-2012, 08:50 PM
Still mad as :):):):) that 7HS STILL dominates.

Right there with you. It truly is unfortunate that it's a rather difficult task balancing those with 7 handsizes and those with 6. When designing 6 handsize characters, you really do need to have a certain power bias, and while it may be there come ToV, I feel it is only slightly there now for certain characters.

RockStar
01-31-2012, 09:55 PM
Right there with you. It truly is unfortunate that it's a rather difficult task balancing those with 7 handsizes and those with 6. When designing 6 handsize characters, you really do need to have a certain power bias, and while it may be there come ToV, I feel it is only slightly there now for certain characters.

Buckle up, yo. The new 6 and 5 hand-size characters are incredibly strong (EX Vespera!). Oh, of note: Team Michigan won Nats Teams this year in no small part to an incredibly well designed Order Mei Lien. I think that deck went undefeated in Teams, but check with JRay to confirm.

Birch
01-31-2012, 10:27 PM
I believe the Mei lien went 1-0-2 in Swiss and 0-0-2 in top cut, but that's mostly because Jeremy and myself didnt give him a chance to finish any of his games. I went 5-0 and Jeremy went 3-2.

Skys2high
01-31-2012, 11:01 PM
I believe the Mei lien went 1-0-2 in Swiss and 0-0-2 in standard, but that's mostly because Jeremy and myself didnt give him a chance to finish any of his games. I went 5-0 and Jeremy went 3-2.

Carrying Team Saturdays :P

RockStar
02-01-2012, 12:43 AM
I believe the Mei lien went 1-0-2 in Swiss and 0-0-2 in standard, but that's mostly because Jeremy and myself didnt give him a chance to finish any of his games. I went 5-0 and Jeremy went 3-2.

From what i understand, Matt didn't play in Standard? Did someone else pilot the deck? Regardless, Mei Lien has got J-Lo booty, and can more than withstand an onslaught from nearly any 6 or hand-size character. I believe it would take fully 2 dedicated turns of all out assault to take her down. Not many decks are truly prepared to do that.

Birch
02-01-2012, 10:53 AM
Oh sorry I meant in top cut. Idk why I said in standard. I'll fix that

Hatman
02-01-2012, 11:35 AM
Buckle up, yo. The new 6 and 5 hand-size characters are incredibly strong (EX Vespera!). Oh, of note: Team Michigan won Nats Teams this year in no small part to an incredibly well designed Order Mei Lien. I think that deck went undefeated in Teams, but check with JRay to confirm.
Did it win Singles? I don't think so.

Birch
02-01-2012, 11:37 AM
I guess king isnt viable in standard too.

Hatman
02-01-2012, 11:38 AM
I guess king isnt viable in standard too.
Did he make top cuts? Nope. Lack of good throws beyond Flinging Half Nelson and ways to combo into it. Not even Gabrek's stuff is going to help him because his stuff is Combo (Throw) but isn't throw itself (so you can't King them)

Cetonis
02-01-2012, 11:52 AM
But you can Kingfish for the throw you need to fulfill the combo... and Spinning Necro Driver should be quite helpful. Missing top cuts at one event =/= unviable. Somehow nobody even played Mitsurugi, does that make him into the next Astaroth?

RockStar
02-01-2012, 12:03 PM
Yeah, Cetonis, I played a Fire Stun Mitsu deck in Teams, and did well with it. I almost rolled the dice with him for Singles, too. But, I agree with you, man. Missing top cuts at one event does not make for blanket statement condemning the viability of all 6 hand-sized characters.

In fact, seeing as how Mitsu won the UK Nats this year, I'm sure there's a legit argument that Hatman's statement is flat-out wrong. It all depends upon the Meta, AND who decides to show up and play what characters at any given event.

TripsEX
02-01-2012, 02:24 PM
It's Hatman. He's so disconnected with the game that I just kind of ignore his statements about UFS at this point.

makingsenseofus
02-01-2012, 02:29 PM
Did he make top cuts? Nope. Lack of good throws beyond Flinging Half Nelson and ways to combo into it. Not even Gabrek's stuff is going to help him because his stuff is Combo (Throw) but isn't throw itself (so you can't King them)

He defiantly made top cuts at worlds, which had about twice the attendance.

Shinji Mimura
02-01-2012, 02:53 PM
Allow me to defend Hatman a bit.

When Hatman says viable, I think he means overall. How much have we seen King since Path of the Master went away? Worlds, IIRC, is the only major event King worked out. What does this say? To me, it says that King can win if he catches a break. What I think Hatman was trying to say (and what I am saying) was that King isn't really viable since he isn't -consistent-. Now, to be fair, he might BECOME consistent, but that's something we'll have to see with time. While a lot of people would make the argument "a character's either top tier or not, and King has proven that he's in the upper tier", UFS has a huge luck factor, so you can't make the analogy many make with fighting games (best player at the top of their game). That said, I don't think King has yet even touched the throne of Mitsurugi in terms of performance, and even Mitsu has only proven that he's usable, not necessarily that he can win.

SOOOOOO

To get back to what I was saying, 6 hand design needs to have an absolute bias, especially for the lower health characters (shout-outs Nightmare, a literally useless character). There are a whole number of reasons why having a consistently large hand (AKA 7-8 handsize) winds up being the better option, and as much as I'd love to see such cool characters as Paul, Yoshimitsu, and Reese proving their weight in gold, I feel that they are balanced in a game that we aren't currently playing right now.

While I have had an ardent hatred for "_____-hate" that this game seems to churn-out when there are broken cards (instead of just, you know, a ban or errata), I honestly feel this game needs more cards that are, frankly, anti 7 handsize/pro 6 handsize. King's super DDT thing was a great start...cept it's a character-only card that not even that character would logically run. I'm not saying Absurd Strength necessarily, but this game has almost always come down to "Do I run a 6-hander or a 7-hander with a somewhat weaker ability who can do what said 6-hander does faster and at a much more effective rate?"

Also, ban Financial Troubles already. I literally only run 1 copy of it in my Fire deck, and it's so unbalanced as a card and as a card idea.

Hatman
02-01-2012, 02:57 PM
He defiantly made top cuts at worlds, which had about twice the attendance.
Which means either the metagame evolved beyond his capabilities since Worlds was in August and there's a 5 month lapse (because I refuse to believe nobody ran him) or (if this refusal to believe is actually false) nobody thinks he can actually do anything anymore which... kind of goes with what I'm saying here. After all, that's two sets that came out that had almost zero cards supporting his main schtick. Hell, I find his stuff works better with Rashotep.

Then again this is the same thing I said at Worlds. People said : "OH NO IT IS TOTALLY VIABLE YOU GUYS!" and then this happens. No 6HS in top 4 since they all got bodied in top 8.


It's Hatman. He's so disconnected with the game that I just kind of ignore his statements about UFS at this point.
Hard to be connected with the game what with the overall meta being unwilling to help out people who aren't part of a particular inner circle.

ScottGaines
02-01-2012, 03:10 PM
Guys, this is a card game. 7hs sees more cards than 6hs. on turn one you are one ahead, two is two ahead, three is well you get the idea. Card games are always about outpacing your opponent in many different ways. 7hs will always be superior no matter the health most times.

rugi has it tough against the 7hs'ers with card draw and defensive abllities. being behind 4 or 5 cards if not more by the business turn, turn 3....is very dangerous in any card game, much less ufs.

play 7hs or don't win. unless you are omar :)

Grizzlegrom
02-01-2012, 03:20 PM
Haha, okay then, you were at Cannats 2009 (the last one held I believe) when I was running Alex so don't be a bum - I was tied for 8th but Shajir's Gill got in on Strength of Schedule over me mostly because Brian royally scrubbed out with Cassandra :) , Polka went on to win it as Mignon, just one of the many decks siding into Chun Li that weren't Chun Li.

I plead the fifth to these accusations by you Mr. Brett lol She was only in my sideboard as a buddy block =P

failed2k
02-01-2012, 04:35 PM
As someone who has almost exclusively played 5 and 6 handers competitively since, well forever. I know exactly where people who want the gap to close stand, but getting on a high horse and saying "So and so isn't even really viable" is just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. there IS a problem with the 7 and 6 hander gap. Absolutely, no question, but that does not mean that no 6 handers are viable, that is just plain silly.

The argument that king is not viable is literally insane to me, I would argue the exact opposite, King is one of the best 5 characters currently in the game and gets a TON of help in the next set. He is good for exactly the reasons people are saying he is not good, because 7 handers are dominant, and king tears 7 hand sizers to pieces. Birch went 5-0 in teams, and had a solid, but unlucky run in singles, after top cutting at worlds with close to the same deck in both teams and singles. Saying King doesn't get enough help in the next set to remain competitive is also ridiculous, Zoeys support and Gabreks support both offer some huge tools(Spinning necro driver and action negation specifically).
King has had just as much competitive success as Mitsu, and if you think he is bad then you aren't playing against or playing yourself proper King decks.
King is the MOST competitve 6 hander right now as far as i'm concerned and it will take a LOT of work to undo that.

Beyond King, Kazuya as a 6 hander has had tons of competitive success after being a little underpiloted after he came out. Kaz is the 2nd best 6 hander in the format in my eyes and can easily hang with the 7 hand centric meta. Kaz did well at worlds(on the winning team and finishing both 9th and 10th in swiss if I recall), Top cutted at nats both this year and last year(Andrew Olexa and Tim Keefe respectively) and generally has been a well liked, but difficult to play deck.

After King and Kaz, Mitsu is a constant and obvious contender, he makes every attack good, so the built in instability of trying to play a 6 hander is reduced by the fact that every attack he plays is a quality attack, he has done well at nearly every tournament in the standard format off of multiple symbols and I really shouldn't need to explain much more about his viability.

Omar is incredible, has tons of high finish results, and should not require much explanation, his ability handles the 6 hand inconsistancy issue like a charm and his other ability gives him some of the best kill turns in the game.

Here is where the problem lies, past those 4, it gets a little grim. The other Mishimas(Jin and Heihachi) I believe are both playable and strong but as aggrocentric 6 handers that don't have mitsu's abilty set, they are screwed to bad draws. Sevastian and Reese are both very playable for nearly the same reason, but have some TERRIBLE bad matchups in the meta, which makes it difficult to run them in singles tourneys. Lu chen has a similar "I have some incredibly bad matchups" problem, but for different matchups obviously. I think Mei Lien is competitive, but it requires a very adaptable pilot who is experienced in handling each matchup differently.

I think the problem isn't that "All 6 handers are inferior" that's a silly concept and there have been multiple times historically when 6 handers were literally one or two bad breaks from winning it all within this very standard. The problem is that once you get past the 6 handers Elite characters, the dropoff is too far, of course you are going to see more 7 handers in top cuts and winning tournaments when so many more of them are viable. There needs to be a heavier power bias when designing 6 handers and a more significant drop off in quality on some of the 7's.

There is 4 -5 competitively viable 6 handers

7 handers off the top of my head.
Jon Herr
Paul Bittner
Eva
Morathi
Cassandra
Andrew Olexa
Kisheri
Mike Lowe
Amy
Truong
Zi Mei
Xianghua
Kirk Polka
and I believe Satoshi moving forward as well
Those are just the cream of the Crop so to speak. So of course you are going to see more of them in top cuts, because 6 handers keep coming out with just a solid set of abilities, and not a incredible one, and 7 handers abilities arent any weaker then their 6 hander counterparts, you could argue many of them are much stronger.

The people who run the game are aware of the problems and having been working on ways to make 6 handers more viable moving forward, but its a delicate balance, at no era in the games history has 6 handers been more viable then they are now, seriously think about it, so its actually pretty much uncharted territory. I have confidence they will get there, it's just a matter of time. There has been a steady improvement in the quality of 6 handers, but you have to turn up the dial one notch at a time, or there is a chance you will screw up EVERYTHING.

Hatman
02-01-2012, 04:45 PM
So of course you are going to see more of them in top cuts, because 6 handers keep coming out with just a solid set of abilities, and not a incredible one, and 7 handers abilities arent any weaker then their 7 hander counterparts, you could argue many of them are much stronger.
Good write-up but that typo is just too dang hilarious that I had to pick it up.

dutpotd
02-01-2012, 05:15 PM
What Jeremy says is right on, except he obviously has the characters all wrong, I think Omar is slightly better than all of the other 6hs, followed by Mitsu, then King, and then Astrid :) I refuse to admit Kazuya is a good 6hs character, he is just annoying, and I believe there is a difference.

I should clarify, Kazuya has really good matchups and really bad matchups, moreso than any other character imo, AND even his good matchups can be mislead by bad draws/hands - he is too gimmicky wheras all the others are generally more consistent which, let's face it, is why 7hs are considered better than 6hs, they have more options and more consistently see the cards that they include during deckbuilding as part of their overarching strategy.

I agree with Jeremy though, it isn't that 6hser's need even better abilities, it's that 7hs shouldn't be receiving abilities that are just as good as what the best/better 6hser's have.

failed2k
02-01-2012, 05:35 PM
I would argue that Kaz actually has nearly no badmatchups when built in a non gimmicky way(See Olexa's and ATLDrew's builds) but in those forms, also gives up a few of the good matchups as well. Boardsweep lets him take control of the game early, and built properly, he won't have to let go of it either. I think down the road he will be doing some incredible things off his other symbols(not chaos) and prove even moreso then already, that he is no gimmick.

I forgot Astrid because I think I mentally block her after hating on her so much at the start of standard.

dutpotd
02-01-2012, 06:02 PM
I would argue that Kaz actually has nearly no badmatchups when built in a non gimmicky way(See Olexa's and ATLDrew's builds) but in those forms, also gives up a few of the good matchups as well.

I forgot Astrid because I think I mentally block her after hating on her so much at the start of standard.

Okay, to be perfectly honest I haven't built or even played a Kaz, no interest - resets aren't my style. So obviously my opinion is lacking on him and based solely on my time against him.

Same for me with Astrid, hated her, until I started using her when she wasn't as stupidly better than 90% of the other characters (i.e. the beginning of standard).

- dut

Birch
02-01-2012, 07:52 PM
Am I honestly the only king player?

I topped at worlds an half the forums think its a fluke, I top on teams at worlds and no one notices, I win a championship at 5-0 but that is overlooked because the sample is too small. Basically everyone who doesn't show up to these events or hasn't seen a well piloted king will just inevitably write him off as not having enough tools, not ever getting better, or just not consistent...

Let me ask you how many other characters in the meta can garuntee damage every single turn? People may say characters with free speed pumps, or characters with recursion on there symbols, but I'd argue that isn't a garuntee. Free throws every turn all game puts a lot of preassure on ever character, especially 7hs.

Kings biggest problems get answered in ToV. He gets the best throw in the set with spinning necro driver, and he gets a way to negate revoke in familiar faces and one of gabreks cards (name escapes me).

So don't write king off just yet. I'll be back just to prove it of you refuse to believe me.

Grizzlegrom
02-01-2012, 08:25 PM
Am I honestly the only king player?

I topped at worlds an half the forums think its a fluke, I top on teams at worlds and no one notices, I win a championship at 5-0 but that is overlooked because the sample is too small. Basically everyone who doesn't show up to these events or hasn't seen a well piloted king will just inevitably write him off as not having enough tools, not ever getting better, or just not consistent...

Let me ask you how many other characters in the meta can garuntee damage every single turn? People may say characters with free speed pumps, or characters with recursion on there symbols, but I'd argue that isn't a garuntee. Free throws every turn all game puts a lot of preassure on ever character, especially 7hs.

Kings biggest problems get answered in ToV. He gets the best throw in the set with spinning necro driver, and he gets a way to negate revoke in familiar faces and one of gabreks cards (name escapes me).

So don't write king off just yet. I'll be back just to prove it of you refuse to believe me.

I don't know how anyone could write King off as a bad character to be fair he is for sure one of the best 6 handsize in standard if not one of the best overall characters yeah he may have lost path of the master but with that much life and free throws nearly every turn I agree why are you the only one playing King? I would but I have a certain other character I'm stuck playing... :p Also Spinning Necro Driver is probably going to take King over the top an easy to use Multiple throw why wouldn't you run that? (Not like that Kazuya throw where you would have to play a kick first) I would honestly be surprised if half of the teams at worlds didn't have king on it

Cetonis
02-01-2012, 09:03 PM
What Jeremy says is right on, except he obviously has the characters all wrong, I think Omar is slightly better than all of the other 6hs, followed by Mitsu, then King, and then Astrid :) I refuse to admit Kazuya is a good 6hs character, he is just annoying, and I believe there is a difference.

I should clarify, Kazuya has really good matchups and really bad matchups, moreso than any other character imo, AND even his good matchups can be mislead by bad draws/hands - he is too gimmicky wheras all the others are generally more consistent which, let's face it, is why 7hs are considered better than 6hs, they have more options and more consistently see the cards that they include during deckbuilding as part of their overarching strategy.

I agree with Jeremy though, it isn't that 6hser's need even better abilities, it's that 7hs shouldn't be receiving abilities that are just as good as what the best/better 6hser's have.

I can only speak for my somewhat unusual Kaz build, but prior to Truong, my only bad matchups were Nehtali (can operate on zero foundations) and 6HS Stun + For the Money decks. (can operate on one turn of foundations, and don't die in 2-3 attacks) Actually, my only loss to any 7HS at any major tournament ever prior to Nats was a swiss loss to an Eva at the Poughkeepsie NYSC. I know in the top 8 against Amy he simply refused to show up for two games in a row, but that was by no means a normal occurrence - it would typically happen maybe once or twice per event.

S_OBrien
02-01-2012, 10:10 PM
Man - we have a few hotbed UFS <North American> areas that are competing for supremecy: Michigan, West Coast, Atlanta, UFS House (if they aren't completely retired) etc. I feel like a free agent in this lol. With the new starters I'm going to try to boost interest in my area too, that said I think the license and cards will be a bigger draw so lets hope and help Jasco Games get on it!

Garret, we are so salty here in Rochester that we did not get even a mention in this "turf war." I think after coming in 2nd in 2 of the National events, the New York region (New Jersey included) could be taken a little seriously.

That aside, Nats was great, and Truong is busted.

P.S. It will take more than a sundae to kill Rochester.

wafflecopter
02-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Kirk - you know who wrote off King? Past couple pages of this thread :c

For those of you who like simple explanations for why 7hs characters do well, King is good because he can actually play 7 cards per turn. If you take King's hand at the end of the draw step and add a Flinging Half Nelson (or Cobra Twist) to it, you have a hand that a 7HS character could have. And, King's turn will play out in largely the same way. In your internal calculations, King might as well be just another 7HS character that dominates.

There are a lot of reasons why adding 1 handsize to a character makes them so good; they're better at blocking, finding matchup-specific cards like Torn Hero, holding back attacks while still building and/or blocking, playing a large number of foundations each turn, and most of all they're more consistent at doing these things. For the most part, competitive 6HS characters become competitive by being really good at one or more of these, while mitigating their downsides in others. Obviously, more vitality = less need to hold blocks up all day. Characters like Omar, Astrid and Mitsurugi mitigate the need to hold attacks by making every attack huge, and in Omar's case by Forming for the exact right attack. Kazuya has such an overwhelmingly powerful ability that it doesn't matter that he's down a card, less consistent, etc all the time -- he can still dominate the game. /theorycrafting

We could probably talk for literal days about exactly why 6HS is, inherently, less good than 7hs, but while I was thinking about this I became curious why people actually prefer 6 handsize characters to 7. If everyone played 6HS characters with extremely powerful abilities, those abilities would dominate every game (to some extent, we see this with Kazuya) -- and so the variance between one game and the next would fall off dramatically. At the same time, variance in deckbuilding would be necessarily ground down because the range of keepable hands is much smaller with six cards than seven. In my finals match with Garret, his deck actually had proportionally half as many attacks as mine (if I remember his 15/70 ratio correctly, it comes out to 21% to 25/60=42%)... if we had been 6HS, Garret would be forced to play more attacks to be able to kill on time and I'd be forced to play fewer attacks to hit enough foundations turn 1 to stay in the game even if I flipped poorly (I suppose West Coast would just stay at the same number and keep slamming orange cards turn 1? but they're craaazy)

way too long; didn't read version: I don't understand why we should prefer six handsize characters to seven handsize, from a game design perspective

RockStar
02-01-2012, 10:53 PM
(I suppose West Coast would just stay at the same number and keep slamming orange cards turn 1? but they're craaazy)



To a certain degree, yes. Yes, yes we are! Crazier still is that we find a way to make it work for us. :)

But, I have to agree with what's being said about 6hs vs 7hs characters. I think there need to be a certain design philosophy when crafting new characters and determining their hand-size. I DO see that Jasco is making a real push toward giving the more unique and more powerful abilities to 6hs characters, and that 7hs characters' abilities are being more and more toned down. I think the lone exception to this initiative is where it concerns Champion Characters, but I'm more or less cool with that.

Birch
02-01-2012, 11:01 PM
To a certain degree, yes. Yes, yes we are! Crazier still is that we find a way to make it work for us. :)

But, I have to agree with what's being said about 6hs vs 7hs characters. I think there need to be a certain design philosophy when crafting new characters and determining their hand-size. I DO see that Jasco is making a real push toward giving the more unique and more powerful abilities to 6hs characters, and that 7hs characters' abilities are being more and more toned down. I think the lone exception to this initiative is where it concerns Champion Characters, but I'm more or less cool with that.

Oops guess you haven't read satoshi yet. :P nothing toned down about that crazy bastard

HypeMan!
02-02-2012, 01:56 AM
way too long; didn't read version: I don't understand why we should prefer six handsize characters to seven handsize, from a game design perspective

This is my perspective:

One, its because they exist. Why would you want to not use a major component of the game? Having handsize variation is one of the unique things about UFS. Another is that game is based on, inspired by, or what ever, fighting games, where character variation coexists and, ideally, everyone can compete in some way. In a perfect world, there would be rational behind using different HS characters. Mitsurugi is a good example of a character that is balanced out by his lower handsize.

dutpotd
02-02-2012, 10:43 AM
Garret, we are so salty here in Rochester that we did not get even a mention in this "turf war." I think after coming in 2nd in 2 of the National events, the New York region (New Jersey included) could be taken a little seriously.

That aside, Nats was great, and Truong is busted.

P.S. It will take more than a sundae to kill Rochester.

Haha, so many people angry that they are part of the 'etc.' lol, gotta win I guess to get the name mentioned by good ole Garett :)

Birch
02-02-2012, 02:03 PM
That's the only reason Garrett knows my name. It's because I'm a winner. If you ain't first you're last. You Rochester guys gotta learn that ;)

Hatman
02-02-2012, 03:05 PM
way too long; didn't read version: I don't understand why we should prefer six handsize characters to seven handsize, from a game design perspective
In that case, they can stop making 6HS characters because there is no point in using them if their abilities are going to be on-par with 7HS rather than monstrously superior.

Either that or you outright place the vitality at 5HS level for 6HS, and 5HS at Hugo/Huitzil level.

dutpotd
02-02-2012, 03:40 PM
In that case, they can stop making 6HS characters because there is no point in using them if their abilities are going to be on-par with 7HS rather than monstrously superior.

Either that or you outright place the vitality at 5HS level for 6HS, and 5HS at Hugo/Huitzil level.

It's a tradeoff between variety and balance. Ideally, you can have both, but the fact of the matter is the more variety you add to the game, handsize or otherwise, the more difficult it becomes to balance each and every option such that they are both distinctly different and yet equally successful.

I like the fact that there are 5/6/7hs characters in the game, because it gives the desinger's the ability to put obviously stronger abilities on the lower handsize characters and still have them in the game. Frankly, things are getting better, you can't even compare the number of non-competitive character cards that used to be released relative to the standard set today.

Grizzlegrom
02-02-2012, 03:48 PM
It's a tradeoff between variety and balance. Ideally, you can have both, but the fact of the matter is the more variety you add to the game, handsize or otherwise, the more difficult it becomes to balance each and every option such that they are both distinctly different and yet equally successful.

I like the fact that there are 5/6/7hs characters in the game, because it gives the desinger's the ability to put obviously stronger abilities on the lower handsize characters and still have them in the game. Frankly, things are getting better, you can't even compare the number of non-competitive character cards that used to be released relative to the standard set today.

Agreed the old vitality was crap like on this guy...


http://img.coolstuffinc.net/products/ufs%20art/a%20tale%20of%20swords%20and%20souls/tss019.jpg

Just be glad that isn't what standard is working with :P

Magnusotls
02-02-2012, 04:10 PM
ya, I don't think he is quite anthropomorphic enough to be in UFS, glad he is not in standard.

Grizzlegrom
02-02-2012, 04:28 PM
ya, I don't think he is quite anthropomorphic enough to be in UFS, glad he is not in standard.

lol I hate posting pics from coolstuff they always show this guy lol...

ATLPiglet
02-02-2012, 04:48 PM
The design is fine the game is great just when making a 6 hs you need a recursion or draw gimmic like Roy mei Lein Omar vespera king and so on if you don't have that then you need a free damage like Mitsu and James hata I would also like to talk about having James hata unbanned if we eratta his r to 1 SPd or dmg if he said that I still think he would be weaker than Mitsu but at least there is another strong option as a 6 hs what do y'all think

RockStar
02-02-2012, 04:52 PM
Agreed the old vitality was crap like on this guy...


http://img.coolstuffinc.net/products/ufs%20art/a%20tale%20of%20swords%20and%20souls/tss019.jpg

Just be glad that isn't what standard is working with :P

Uh-oh, man: SQUIRRELS! :)

Hatman
02-02-2012, 05:53 PM
I like the fact that there are 5/6/7hs characters in the game, because it gives the desinger's the ability to put obviously stronger abilities on the lower handsize characters and still have them in the game. Frankly, things are getting better, you can't even compare the number of non-competitive character cards that used to be released relative to the standard set today.
The problem isn't that "It's better now". It's that it is constantly 7HS that wins since the dawn of time with outliers that ended up being banned (Hugo3 due to Fortune and Glory, for example). Either as you've said the dude playing 6HS gets a bad break or something happens but fact of the matter is, it's excessively rare for a 6HS to win it all. There's a reason why most of the champion cards are 7HS. There's a reason why we've rarely seen a majority of 6HS in top 8 as opposed to 7HS. I don't mind having the variety - I mind having a false sense of variety like now. Why choose a 6HS character when a 7HS character with similar abilities is released? There are no reasons because you get to see an extra card a turn and that'll help you out more in the long run. I feel that the alleged balance simply doesn't hold up when you compare the few 6HS that are viable compared to the smattering of powerful 7HS characters.

It's not because what came before was utter crap that we should be satisfied with mediocrity either. I know very well we used to have 5H/25Vit (Balrog if you are wondering - I played both versions.) or 8H/23Vit (Adon3) and things like that. That doesn't make the current situation better in general, it just makes it better in comparison.

Also, don't talk to me about Roy. I'm having a mad hate on for the guy because of an earlier errata.

ATLPiglet
02-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Mitsu just won the UK nats so about them not winning....

Cetonis
02-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Since RH came out there have bern four PTCs, Worlds, and US and UK nationals. 6HS characters won three out of the seven. Even though 6hs is less consistent drawing its own stuff, 7hs runs the risk of randomly getting blown to pieces by an opponent's strong draw. Yes, there are more competitive 7hs right now, because they only need play abilities as opposed to great ones and FFG seemed not to fully grasp this. It is starting to change, but expecting a total 180 to happen overnight is unrealistic

Arch Duke Obvious
02-02-2012, 11:34 PM
Not to mention that 100% of the 6hs characters that entered the standard tournament made top cuts. Statistically, they have a much better chance at winning!

Cetonis
02-03-2012, 10:58 AM
Not quite - Birch fell short with King and Sean O'Brien was using tri-symbol Sevastian unless I'm being vastly forgetful. So 3 out of 5, though I may be missing a sixth. Still pretty good.

Doji_Mike
02-03-2012, 11:37 AM
It is not like 7 out of the 8 decks in the Top 8 of UK nats were 6 handsize, or anything like that >_>

Shinji Mimura
02-03-2012, 01:52 PM
Lol,
Hatman: "King is bad"
Whole forum: "Fffffff no!"

I don't have a problem with 6 handers being given "low" health figures like 26. What I mind is that characters with 26 should be having perhaps THE most amazing abilities IN THE GAME. What they're given, oftentimes, are abilities that are better suited for 7 handers (generally, the trade-off is that the bigger your handsize the more simplistic of a character you're supposed to be).

Pretty much everyone's points that have been made are valid, and I can only hope that Jasco finds such discussion of value. 6 handers are getting better, and it's truly going to show a potentially different argument once all of TOV comes out.

What I said earlier I will simply say again: currently, an overwhelming majority of 6 handers are balanced...for another game/format that we aren't and won't play. In the same way that we have "buffed/nerfed" some of the ShadoWar characters, I feel we should do the same for all characters that are legal. Equally as important, I hope that 6 handers continue to be made powerful.

Hatman
02-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Pretty much everyone's points that have been made are valid, and I can only hope that Jasco finds such discussion of value. 6 handers are getting better, and it's truly going to show a potentially different argument once all of TOV comes out.
I also lol'd at the fact that everyone was using ToV as their argument as though it was actually out.

Shinji Mimura
02-03-2012, 09:37 PM
I also lol'd at the fact that everyone was using ToV as their argument as though it was actually out.

Many people have been playtesting it ever since the pics came out.

Hatman
02-04-2012, 03:03 PM
Many people have been playtesting it ever since the pics came out.
Still ain't legal so saying "WHEN TOV COMES OUT!" doesn't really help me when it's not actually out.

Magnusotls
02-04-2012, 03:23 PM
^ what?

TripsEX
02-05-2012, 12:58 AM
Still ain't legal so saying "WHEN TOV COMES OUT!" doesn't really help me when it's not actually out.

What happens when ToV comes out and problems are fixed? Still don't matter, eh?

Hatman
02-05-2012, 10:21 AM
What happens when ToV comes out and problems are fixed? Still don't matter, eh?
When it comes out, I'll play with it and decide for myself rather than believe that everything is all chill on day minus.

Birch
02-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Just curious when you actually played competitively was Hatman. Most of the opinions on this thread are by seasoned players who frequent major events so there opinions are all pretty valid.

HypeMan!
02-05-2012, 05:57 PM
And my opinion! Don't forget my opinion :D

jason
02-06-2012, 12:02 PM
Interesting read guys. I will point out that 6hs at this years US Nats was very underrepresented. The 5 6hs characters that were played in singles did extremely well however.

I can't wait to see how the next few sets change the meta.

Hatman
02-06-2012, 02:51 PM
Just curious when you actually played competitively was Hatman. Most of the opinions on this thread are by seasoned players who frequent major events so there opinions are all pretty valid.
If I could attend major events, I would. Except that lately, they seem to all happen in the midwest or west coast (and not in my country to boot), so I can't. Other than a PTC that I could not attend since I had no passport at the time (still don't as I can't afford to travel so it would be wasted money), there was nothing that was actually reasonable for me to attend either due to prior engagements or outright having no job/money.

Forgive me for having an opinion I guess. Then again in UFS it's always been "STFU unless you go to every event ever. Unless you're in the UK where you have your own forum to yourselves." I shouldn't be surprised that this is still happening even though Jasco has tried to entice new conversations. As I've said several times within this thread : If that was my only problem with the game and the community, I'd very likely shrug it off.

But whatevs, thread's derailed so much it's now on the moon.

Tader_Salad
02-07-2012, 03:49 AM
But whatevs, thread's derailed so much it's now on the moon.
Low grav thread, sweet. Now if only I could control that dump truck.

Hatman
02-07-2012, 02:03 PM
Low grav thread, sweet. Now if only I could control that dump truck.

This thread is now about Blast Corps.

Magnusotls
02-08-2012, 11:40 AM
Uh oh I am going to lightly clip the nuke nuke truUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Hatman
02-10-2012, 12:31 AM
Only thing I had left to do in this game was about 10-13 medals for You Can Stop Now.

Michael
03-10-2012, 03:39 AM
I also want to travel east for future UK events. Gonna have to pay attention to any information on this.

i think the date they were considering would be mid october basically a year after the last nats at sheffield. If you want info on it madeofwin is sorting it methinks.

Also on the argument of 7 handers vs 6 handers at uk nats last year a large portion of the top 8 were hs6 and did well. Top was mitsirugi then ulrik. in top 8 was kaden morithi jin reese, i cant remember the rest but am sure morithi was the only hs7 so plenty of hs6ers and only 1hs7 made top 4 i think