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Ken_Masters
08-08-2010, 06:54 PM
Just wanted to point out that only 7+HS characters have ever won worlds. Even with the beffy 6hs characters in mini-block a 7hs still took it to them. Card advantage just can't be beat in the grand scheme of things. Discuss. :D

HypeMan!
08-08-2010, 08:51 PM
Honestly from what I saw, it wasn't so much HS as it was deck symbols. Andrew's was just a wall of Good damage redux. Even with a 6 HS I don't think that would have changed things. Also with so much card draw I think the HS has been down played to better abilities and symbol spread.

Yoko Charming Fox
08-08-2010, 10:07 PM
I would just like to point out that only 7 HS, no 8s, have ever one worlds in standard.

Ken_Masters
08-08-2010, 10:53 PM
Halbard: I'm not saying that the HS is the only thing that makes the deck, but rather just pointing out that results don't lie. Every world tournament has been won by a character with more than a 6 HS. I agree the player and the symbol of the deck also matter alot, if not more. I just thought it was interesting that this trend continues and is so consistent through UFS history.

I think that seeing that extra card per turn or having that extra card in hand each turn goes a really long way for the consistency of a deck. Just my personal opinion though.

Yoko Charming Fox
08-08-2010, 11:01 PM
I think that seeing that extra card per turn or having that extra card in hand each turn goes a really long way for the consistency of a deck. Just my personal opinion though.

Agreed more cards=more power.

rAn
08-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Eh, if it were strictly card advantage winning games , some of the 8 hs'ers from the past would have won worlds in their time or even legacy. It's not a vitality to hs problem for the 8hsers either, seeing as how you had 8-22's running wild :D. I think good abilities are often strapped onto a character that happens to have 7s and the right symbol spread and thats why they bring home championships, not because they're 7hs.

HypeMan!
08-09-2010, 05:19 PM
I am curious to see if things change now or stay the same. Jasco has said that control will be more present on attacks than on foundation and that will make it more important for the control characters to have larger handsizes to play their control pieces, since they need to be used as attacks and not built up into a gray wall.

failed2k
08-09-2010, 05:36 PM
7 handsize will always be better then 6 in many ways, but in the current era of the game, playing 7 handsize is also a liability in certain matchups, just ask any 7 hander not named Andrew Olexa that sat down across from me gencon weekend.

I never lost a single game to a 7 hander not named Hilde the entire weekend. 7 handsize is still the number to have, but as long as blocks on non-attacks stay on the not so good side, and attacks stay better then grey cards, 7 handsize is not really a huge edge.

dutpotd
08-09-2010, 05:50 PM
7 handsize will always be better then 6 in many ways, but in the current era of the game, playing 7 handsize is also a liability in certain matchups, just ask any 7 hander not named Andrew Olexa that sat down across from me gencon weekend.

I never lost a single game to a 7 hander not named Hilde the entire weekend. 7 handsize is still the number to have, but as long as blocks on non-attacks stay on the not so good side, and attacks stay better then grey cards, 7 handsize is not really a huge edge.

I agree, the meta has finally evolved to the point where blitz from 6hs kills low vit chars advantage with higher handsize, so much zone change, so much speed pump.

- dut

Sketch
08-09-2010, 07:39 PM
I agree, the meta has finally evolved to the point where blitz from 6hs kills low vit chars advantage with higher handsize, so much zone change, so much speed pump.

- dut

This. And this coming from a player who ran a 7HSer to top 8 not named Hilde - I played Kisheri and survived attack barrages from beefy 6HSers all tourney (Shajir's Fire Paul, Aslum's Fire Mitsurugi, Sean's Order Astrid, Omar's .. Omar. You get the idea.) on the back of usually being able to predict attack lineups and make the right call with Cold and Indifferent, or block from my staging area with Flexible Body and save myself a block from my hand. I played more Knight Breakers as blocks than as killshots all tournament. Being a 7HS WITHOUT those tools in this format is completely terrifying if you can't wall up like 1-attack Good can.

Wanna kill 7HSers? Run multiples or run throws. The two decks I lost to in Swiss were King played by John (Cain Valentine) - this deck's worst matchup, and one I'd practiced extensively - and Heihachi played by Keenan (Makingsenseofus) - a teammate of mine, and a great deck pilot with big, scary multiples. I had 6 cards in my sideboard dedicated to stopping Spinning Demon, Fury of the Ancients and the oddball Flash Needle, and they were there for a good reason - as a 7HSer, they're about the worst thing you can have played against you - you can't afford to eat a copy or two's worth of damage, you're too scrawny.