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View Full Version : Ufs vids are up on jasco youtube!!



ScottGaines
08-23-2010, 03:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/JascoGames

I'm ready to see the rest posted up!!

Shoutouts to jasco games for doing this, such a good call!

RockStar
08-23-2010, 04:18 PM
Great vid-footage! I'm surprised at how similar Jeremy Ray's Jin and mine are, just a different set-up attack wise.

I'm also surprised at how poorly Jin drew into attacks all match-long. I think the outcome could've gone differently if Jin would've drew into enough attacks a Turn earlier during the 1st match.

That said, a great win by Mr. Olexa, nonetheless!!

Also...did anyone notice the incorrect play of Need to Destroy on Gm2 prt2 6min in? He played NtD's R as an E??

Nekuro
08-23-2010, 05:21 PM
Hadn't seen the NtD play, but the attack draw was crazy during first match... Hardly anything in hand for most of the game. Bad luck man '^^

Shinguyi
08-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Wonder if the Extended and Legacy Finals were recorded as well.

Very nicely done nonetheless.

HypeMan!
08-23-2010, 05:44 PM
Legacy Finals were recorded. There was some great showmanship during it too.

dutpotd
08-23-2010, 06:02 PM
Hmmm, glad these are up, I didn't get the chance to see them in person at Gencon.

Game 1 looked very promising for Jeremy after his turn 1, its a shame he didn't draw into enough to attack turn 2.

Game 2 turned around for Andrew and yet he just didn't seem to get his attacks at the right time either... Then STUNNING through the Torn Hero ^^ during a massive attack turn - well played Jeremy.

Game 3 - Andrew's first couple turns were too good, anything but a miracle attack hand and some good checks would have a terrible time cracking the 18 Hilde vitality with that stable of a board. Said board was so good in fact that a Dual Wielding wasn't even needed, as was evidenced by the kill by Olexa. Bad luck on this game Jeremy, surely had you wishing you could redraw your second turn of game 1 with attacks ^^

Love Jeremy talking to the camera though, good stuff.

I heard Olexa say my name in the game 3 video lol, I think in relation to the math we Hilde players have to do before we attack - good stuff. I especially like the foundations in pool to up the strength of the Amy foundation and making the dual wielding play irrelevant. Well played Olexa :)

It's an interesting matchup to say the least, although I do agree it strongly favors Hilde. One of the biggest things going against the Jin are the opening hand and following draw-turn requirements, specifically Jin needs foundations and a character if possible so that he can then play any and all attacks he draws and with enough damage to pose a threat. For Hilde, barring the situation where she just never draws into her attacks, all she's looking for in an opening hand is survival. Her second/third/fourth hand doesn't need to be anything in particular because once she has survival, assuming she draws the attack, she almost certainly wins. This is one of the reasons I play more than 3 attacks in my Hilde, namely, I like to be 'very' certain I will draw an attack turn 2+ to capitalize on an opponents botched kill turn if it comes, or if they simply have no answer to her enhance. Of course doing so negatively impacts the chances of getting a survival opening hand... Hilde's an interesting character that way, many different types of builds that are equally effective, it will be sad to see her go, but almost certainly for the best.

Very good show by two champions! Congratulations to the winner and the runner-up, both incredibly well deserved placings. Looking forward to more videos, and more games at tournies with both of you and others in the future.

- dut (Garett)

dutpotd
08-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Wonder if the Extended and Legacy Finals were recorded as well.

Very nicely done nonetheless.

I believe Extended started to be recorded (we might have game 1 recorded), but believe me, you don't want to watch game 2 and 3... Well 3 is short with a Collecting Data turn 2, but I think game 2 goes down to final 5 or so cards in Paul's deck. Great game, but no camera in the world can capture our war of grey (and blue and red, you have to count Heel Snipe in that mind game, and certainly Bring the Master/Tag Along/Collecting) ^^.

- dut

ScottGaines
08-23-2010, 07:02 PM
Singles top 4 and top 2 were recorded as well as legacy top 4 and top 2. Hopefully they all go up soon, these vids are amazing!

and dut yeah you hit the nail on the head about jin, the deck is great but it is so draw dependant. I know every deck in the format is, especially combo decks, but against hilde you have to draw perfect it seems, or have that deck poop on itself.

failed2k
08-23-2010, 08:05 PM
Great vid-footage! I'm surprised at how similar Jeremy Ray's Jin and mine are, just a different set-up attack wise.

I'm also surprised at how poorly Jin drew into attacks all match-long. I think the outcome could've gone differently if Jin would've drew into enough attacks a Turn earlier during the 1st match.

That said, a great win by Mr. Olexa, nonetheless!!

Also...did anyone notice the incorrect play of Need to Destroy on Gm2 prt2 6min in? He played NtD's R as an E??


That wasn't a misplay, that was need to destroy being destroyed for Manical Laughter, he had blanked it with Memories of a nightmare, and I was commited to the turn, so I just tossed it. There was no illegal play there sir.

failed2k
08-23-2010, 08:16 PM
Hmmm, glad these are up, I didn't get the chance to see them in person at Gencon.

Game 1 looked very promising for Jeremy after his turn 1, its a shame he didn't draw into enough to attack turn 2.

Game 2 turned around for Andrew and yet he just didn't seem to get his attacks at the right time either... Then STUNNING through the Torn Hero ^^ during a massive attack turn - well played Jeremy.

Game 3 - Andrew's first couple turns were too good, anything but a miracle attack hand and some good checks would have a terrible time cracking the 18 Hilde vitality with that stable of a board. Said board was so good in fact that a Dual Wielding wasn't even needed, as was evidenced by the kill by Olexa. Bad luck on this game Jeremy, surely had you wishing you could redraw your second turn of game 1 with attacks ^^

Love Jeremy talking to the camera though, good stuff.

I heard Olexa say my name in the game 3 video lol, I think in relation to the math we Hilde players have to do before we attack - good stuff. I especially like the foundations in pool to up the strength of the Amy foundation and making the dual wielding play irrelevant. Well played Olexa :)

It's an interesting matchup to say the least, although I do agree it strongly favors Hilde. One of the biggest things going against the Jin are the opening hand and following draw-turn requirements, specifically Jin needs foundations and a character if possible so that he can then play any and all attacks he draws and with enough damage to pose a threat. For Hilde, barring the situation where she just never draws into her attacks, all she's looking for in an opening hand is survival. Her second/third/fourth hand doesn't need to be anything in particular because once she has survival, assuming she draws the attack, she almost certainly wins. This is one of the reasons I play more than 3 attacks in my Hilde, namely, I like to be 'very' certain I will draw an attack turn 2+ to capitalize on an opponents botched kill turn if it comes, or if they simply have no answer to her enhance. Of course doing so negatively impacts the chances of getting a survival opening hand... Hilde's an interesting character that way, many different types of builds that are equally effective, it will be sad to see her go, but almost certainly for the best.

Very good show by two champions! Congratulations to the winner and the runner-up, both incredibly well deserved placings. Looking forward to more videos, and more games at tournies with both of you and others in the future.

- dut (Garett)

I put up a fight, but really, nearly every matchup Andrew sat down across from that weekend was in his favor, I had my chances, and good fortune didn't feel like doing me many favors. I forgot that I talked to the camera throughout the matches, it amuses me in retrospect.

RockStar
08-23-2010, 09:02 PM
That wasn't a misplay, that was need to destroy being destroyed for Manical Laughter, he had blanked it with Memories of a nightmare, and I was commited to the turn, so I just tossed it. There was no illegal play there sir.

Ah. That explains it. There was hardly any sound to the vid, so i was simply trying to infer what was happening as best as possible.

It was a really great match, bro! Obviously, you had tons of draw available via 2 Algol attacks. However, did you find that line-up adequate for most kill turns, as both attacks are mid-zoned and relatively slow.

failed2k
08-24-2010, 02:43 AM
Ah. That explains it. There was hardly any sound to the vid, so i was simply trying to infer what was happening as best as possible.

It was a really great match, bro! Obviously, you had tons of draw available via 2 Algol attacks. However, did you find that line-up adequate for most kill turns, as both attacks are mid-zoned and relatively slow.

Killed everyone but Andrew so I guess I can't complain :)

tannerface
08-24-2010, 04:37 AM
One rule about Jeremy is, if he needs luck to do it than it won't happen cause he has NONE!!! He once flipped a 2cc when there were none in his deck??

ScottGaines
08-24-2010, 08:55 PM
tanner, what's up mang? how have you been my cracka? you still gunslinging this game?

RockStar
08-24-2010, 10:06 PM
Killed everyone but Andrew so I guess I can't complain :)

There is evidence for that, i guess! LOL!! Your deck and my deck are very similar, with the most glaring differences being our attack line-up. My deck doesn't have nearly as much draw, but it tends to be pretty heavy-handed. After witnessing how your deck functions, i'm trying to see if there's a 'happy medium' where i can incorporate some of your draw strategy with my own (admittedly) Hyper Aggro tendencies!

Tagrineth
08-25-2010, 03:19 PM
So, I'm watching these videos. Legacy Worlds. Why didn't Ibuki go for Start Over on turn 3?

Start Over's 6 diff. He had 1 open foundation and his character, two Emptiness and an incredibly overwhelming board on the other side of the table. Ibuki gives +3 to the check, Akuma gives -4... that means Ibuki needs a printed 5 to pass it... which he hit. If it'd been KFT'd or some such, then okay, big deal... but you know, he didn't have a way to counter his opponent's KFT regardless, and if it'd gone through it would've fixed the entire situation... and if it had hit, he would've still passed the Megalomania and Unkown Force.

Am I missing something here? Pretty sure I saw a Start Over in his opening hand.

Oh and yeah, YWNE is dumb.

ScottGaines
08-25-2010, 03:45 PM
i didnt go for it b/c he would of had kft at that point, and i was probably on tilt a little lol.

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 04:02 PM
i didnt go for it b/c he would of had kft at that point, and i was probably on tilt a little lol.

I would be too. Quite the dominating performance from Void there. Gonna have to think of ways to beat the type of lock down Legacy is capable of if I intend to compete :)

Grats on your 2nd place Scott and to Drew for 1st.

- dut

Yoko Charming Fox
08-25-2010, 04:03 PM
Does anyone know what Ray would have drawn had he survived that last turn of game three, because if he had not let Olexa replay after forgetting that he had to do Not Human first, Olexa would have been in a really bad situation. I can't know for sure because I don't know what Olexa would have done, or what Ray would have drawn, I'm just wondering what people think of this.

I'm not trying to say Olexa didn't deserve to win, and I'm not trying to rag on Ray for not taking the opportunity. I think that it shows what a good sport Ray is, and speaks good of him. But at the same time remembering what order to play your cards in is part of the game, so I couldn't blame anyone for not allowing a replay, expecially a such a crusial moment.

I guess I'm a little torn. Anyway congrats to both of you.

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Does anyone know what Ray would have drawn had he survived that last turn of game three, because if he had not let Olexa replay after forgetting that he had to do Not Human first, Olexa would have been in a really bad situation. I can't know for sure because I don't know what Olexa would have done, or what Ray would have drawn, I'm just wondering what people think of this.


If you watch the replay you see the way Jeremy finishes things off, head bang and toss together of deck. I would say with 99% certainty NO ONE knows what would have been drawn on the following turn the way that he put his cards together. And, not that it matters, I can say with about 80%+ certainty that fully commited but for Not Human that Jeremy would have found a way to finish Olexa off.

I didn't even see the whole misplay and redo the first time I watched, I simply saw the setup and the cardpool and stopped watching there.

Not that Jeremy vs. Olexa is indicative of the way all games are played in UFS, or of how all players behave, BUT anyone watching that replay will have to conclude UFS truly is a card game of gentleman and full of camaraderie.

All I can say is WOW.

- dut

failed2k
08-25-2010, 04:20 PM
Does anyone know what Ray would have drawn had he survived that last turn of game three, because if he had not let Olexa replay after forgetting that he had to do Not Human first, Olexa would have been in a really bad situation. I can't know for sure because I don't know what Olexa would have done, or what Ray would have drawn, I'm just wondering what people think of this.

I'm not trying to say Olexa didn't deserve to win, and I'm not trying to rag on Ray for not taking the opportunity. I think that it shows what a good sport Ray is, and speaks good of him. But at the same time remembering what order to play your cards in is part of the game, so I couldn't blame anyone for not allowing a replay, expecially a such a crusial moment.

I guess I'm a little torn. Anyway congrats to both of you.

Not exactly sure what it was, but it was likely attacks, since I wasn't drawing any, and I wasn't really flipping any either.

It sounds funny, but the Finals were very casual, me and Andrew are best friends basically and we've played that matchup 1000 times. You can't hear it, but we were talking through that whole thing, before and after. It's just not a big deal, we both knew he had me(unfortunately) we just were trying to make sure the math was right, I had basically scooped once he passed the control check, just had to iron out the details.

If I had another turn? It would of been interesting, but not promises of winning, I would of likely gotten my 2 momentum tho, to hide behind my Power of the Edge, there would be 1 wrath left in his deck, so he would have to go to cycle, or have me waste my momentum like a idiot to be able to kill me, but once his wall gets up to full power(and it was already pretty impressive), It would be incredibly difficult to put him down, so it's hard to say where it was past that turn.

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 05:53 PM
What would be really good to do is have commentators like fighting game tournaments. I realize it's a bit harder because you don't want to distract the players, but you could always just dub over the videos before posting them.

Good stuff, and congrats to all that competed at Worlds!

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 06:04 PM
What would be really good to do is have commentators like fighting game tournaments. I realize it's a bit harder because you don't want to distract the players, but you could always just dub over the videos before posting them.

Good stuff, and congrats to all that competed at Worlds!

Yaknow, after spending a lot of time recently watching Starcraft 2 replays with commentator, I think this is a great idea! Because it really isn't easy to tell what or why the players in the video are doing things. Even players of the game probably, at least I will admit myself, have a rough time following.

In this case, video of the staging area, and both players hands as 'picture in picture' would be simply amazing!

I'd think a grassroots start to this would be the most viable way to see if it is populat amongst players. For instance, do it for some local/weekly finals, post it for comment, and go from there. One day, when it is accepted as a good learning/enjoyable tool, start implementing it for finals.

- dut

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 06:07 PM
Eh, I spend a LOT of time watching competitive Pokemon videos, and really, narration is EXTREMELY intruiging. I realize the two obviously play differently, but how many times have you watched your friend or teammate play, and you thought to yourself, "Do this...play this card", and then they don't and you're like "...ugh...you're screwed" or such scenarios?

And yeah, some of the pics were very blurry, and really, I think it would also help with newer people getting into the games. I know that if I didn't watch Pokemon vids, I wouldn't be nearly as good as I am now

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 06:09 PM
And yeah, some of the pics were very blurry, and really, I think it would also help with newer people getting into the games. I know that if I didn't watch Pokemon vids, I wouldn't be nearly as good as I am now

An interesting and probably more direct comparison. You are referring to pokemon the card game, correct?

And oh, uh, nice to have you back, nice avatar pic choice, etc. with the formalities :)

- dut

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 06:38 PM
Eh, hoping to not derail the topic too much...

Nope, I'm referring to Pokemon the game...game. I honestly didn't know that switching was that integral to gameplay, and that moves like Pursuit and Rapid Spin were as important as they are.

As for narration, the people in the videos often say "I thought about doing this, but I anticipated this, so I did this instead", so, when it comes to UFS, they could either do that, OR, like I said, they could do it like fighting games where the commentators say things like, "He's going to need to draw into this in order to come back" or "he has a way to turn the game around, but only if he drew..."

Eh, I didn't mean to be gone for so long. I only got like...6 packs of Tekken and 6 of Quest for Souls, and when I went to buy some boxes, UFS had already gone under, meaning everybody bought everything they could, so I was :):):):)ed in that regard.

The way I see it, Jasco is LITERALLY a fresh start, a reboot, and as such, instead of making up a new name (such as MrGameAndWatch or MarcoPulleaux), I just went back to the old name from the STG days, and the name that was once an infamous household name around these parts ^^;;

Glad to be back, and glad to finally get back into the arena!

HolyDragonCloud
08-25-2010, 06:46 PM
Eh, hoping to not derail the topic too much...

Nope, I'm referring to Pokemon the game...game. I honestly didn't know that switching was that integral to gameplay, and that moves like Pursuit and Rapid Spin were as important as they are.

As for narration, the people in the videos often say "I thought about doing this, but I anticipated this, so I did this instead", so, when it comes to UFS, they could either do that, OR, like I said, they could do it like fighting games where the commentators say things like, "He's going to need to draw into this in order to come back" or "he has a way to turn the game around, but only if he drew..."

Eh, I didn't mean to be gone for so long. I only got like...6 packs of Tekken and 6 of Quest for Souls, and when I went to buy some boxes, UFS had already gone under, meaning everybody bought everything they could, so I was :):):):)ed in that regard.

The way I see it, Jasco is LITERALLY a fresh start, a reboot, and as such, instead of making up a new name (such as MrGameAndWatch or MarcoPulleaux), I just went back to the old name from the STG days, and the name that was once an infamous household name around these parts ^^;;

Glad to be back, and glad to finally get back into the arena!

YOU!

And yeah, switching in pokemon is, like, 75% of the matchup. The great players predict what's coming and switch properly. It's the difference between smacking an Electivire with an electric attack (I haven't played in a long while, so this is potentially a dated example) and getting your whole team swept by a pokemon that covers nearly 80% of specific type weaknesses, and...not smacking said pokemon with a buff.

Also, for commentary, just do like what the WSOP does. Have the players sit down and go through the thought process after the match is over. It would be pretty tough to do full blown commentary on the spot because it's different than with fighting games.

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 06:53 PM
It's only dated because Electivire sucks so badly. He is not OU no matter how you cut it.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to do commentary on the spot because it'd aggrivate the players I'd imagine. What they could do is get an overhead camera poised over the action, and have the commentators VIEWING the game on a TV screen from afar, THEN it could work out.

ATLDrew
08-25-2010, 06:59 PM
So, I'm watching these videos. Legacy Worlds. Why didn't Ibuki go for Start Over on turn 3?

Start Over's 6 diff. He had 1 open foundation and his character, two Emptiness and an incredibly overwhelming board on the other side of the table. Ibuki gives +3 to the check, Akuma gives -4... that means Ibuki needs a printed 5 to pass it... which he hit. If it'd been KFT'd or some such, then okay, big deal... but you know, he didn't have a way to counter his opponent's KFT regardless, and if it'd gone through it would've fixed the entire situation... and if it had hit, he would've still passed the Megalomania and Unkown Force.

Am I missing something here? Pretty sure I saw a Start Over in his opening hand.

Oh and yeah, YWNE is dumb.

Ill have to check the videos again but I was holding at least 2 answers to a reset the whole game. Whether it was Seculusion, KFT, Akuma, etc. And if im right i had him under OS by turn 3 game 1. Ill have to watch the videos again.

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 07:00 PM
Nope, I'm referring to Pokemon the game...game.

See, I guess it's a good thing I asked. I wasn't aware Pokemon was played competitively, which I presume it is from your response.

Back on topic, I don't think 'live' commentary would be all that practical for UFS. But replay commentary would be great and from the position of a commentator and viewership not knowing the outcome, i.e. players hands and the staging area are filmed during the live match, then the commentator watchs them compiled via PiP and talks throughout. Anyone then watching something like what is linked from this thread could listen to someones thoughts/take on what is going on, a verbal aide to the picture.

- dut

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 07:18 PM
Well, in keeping with the tradition of fighting games, it's best if the commentators don't see the player's hands so that it's a surprise.

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 07:22 PM
Well, in keeping with the tradition of fighting games, it's best if the commentators don't see the player's hands so that it's a surprise.

Good point, maybe they have a copy of the decklists so they know what 'could' be played? Similar to the way in fighting games everyone knows what the moves are?

- dut

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 07:29 PM
That, or if they pick respected UFS players (like maybe the people that got 3rd and 4th?) to do the commentary, they could probably make likely assumptions

ChaosKnight
08-25-2010, 07:37 PM
What does the R (+4) on Akuma and similar cards mean?

dutpotd
08-25-2010, 07:40 PM
What does the R (+4) on Akuma and similar cards mean?

It means passing a check of 4 or greater as a cost to play the ability. Kind of like playing a card with a 4 difficulty in the corner as your first form.

For example, Akuma responds to play the ability, the cost to pass the ability (paying it's cost) is to make a control check and passing a 4 difficulty. If a 5 is flipped for control you are a-okay, same with a 4 or a 6. If a 3 is flipped, similar to passing the difficulty of a card played into the card pool, the player may commit 1 foundation to pass the ability.

Someone can probably explain that more 'technically correctly' than I am here and probably point you to a section in the rulebook, but I hope my explanation makes sense.

- dut

ChaosKnight
08-25-2010, 07:51 PM
It means passing a check of 4 or greater as a cost to play the ability. Kind of like playing a card with a 4 difficulty in the corner as your first form.

For example, Akuma responds to play the ability, the cost to pass the ability (paying it's cost) is to make a control check and passing a 4 difficulty. If a 5 is flipped for control you are a-okay, same with a 4 or a 6. If a 3 is flipped, similar to passing the difficulty of a card played into the card pool, the player may commit 1 foundation to pass the ability.

Someone can probably explain that more 'technically correctly' than I am here and probably point you to a section in the rulebook, but I hope my explanation makes sense.

- dut

Thanks a lot that explains it. When I left from the game around Darkstalkers Set 1 I don't recall such an ability, since I've got back into the game a few months ago I've been wondering what it does.

ATLDrew
08-25-2010, 07:55 PM
That, or if they pick respected UFS players (like maybe the people that got 3rd and 4th?) to do the commentary, they could probably make likely assumptions

Nope. That was Mike Lowe and Shajir. The commentary would be like "Look at how fat and stupid these Americans are." All while they drank their milk in a bag and ate their superior ketchup. Asses

Shinji Mimura
08-25-2010, 08:00 PM
Milk...IN A BAG?! What manner of terrorism is that?

ScottGaines
08-25-2010, 08:00 PM
And drank growlers from the ram, while saying salt/bodied/get bodied/sand ni****, etc. canadians are rowdy.

Tagrineth
08-25-2010, 08:07 PM
Ill have to check the videos again but I was holding at least 2 answers to a reset the whole game. Whether it was Seculusion, KFT, Akuma, etc. And if im right i had him under OS by turn 3 game 1. Ill have to watch the videos again.

Game 1 didn't feature any OS at all. Just that game 1 I noticed you had like 10 foundations including double emptiness/aqua, yoga, a ring vet... if I was Scott I would've just gone for the Start Over on turn 3 and banked on you not having hit a KFT or Seclusion yet. The game was already pretty much a surefire loss after the 2nd YWNE anyway so it was go for the epic turnaround or lose anyway. /shrug

That's the only thing I noticed that I might've done differently, but it struck me as a possibly very significant play.

Da_ghetto_gamer
08-25-2010, 09:17 PM
Ah. That explains it. There was hardly any sound to the vid, so i was simply trying to infer what was happening as best as possible.

It was a really great match, bro! Obviously, you had tons of draw available via 2 Algol attacks. However, did you find that line-up adequate for most kill turns, as both attacks are mid-zoned and relatively slow.

Wait, if it was blank then how did you still get the foundation from it being destroyed? Unless it has somethin 2 do with some weird timing thing I don't get it...

ATLDrew
08-25-2010, 11:33 PM
Game 1 didn't feature any OS at all. Just that game 1 I noticed you had like 10 foundations including double emptiness/aqua, yoga, a ring vet... if I was Scott I would've just gone for the Start Over on turn 3 and banked on you not having hit a KFT or Seclusion yet. The game was already pretty much a surefire loss after the 2nd YWNE anyway so it was go for the epic turnaround or lose anyway. /shrug

That's the only thing I noticed that I might've done differently, but it struck me as a possibly very significant play.

I just rewatched it. I had KFT and Akuma ready. I had two outs to Start Over and i think he was under double emptiness. His options were start over and then kft my kft, or double start over. Either way that means he has to get through akuma or it leaves him with 3 cards for the turn. Either is fine!

Tagrineth
08-26-2010, 02:57 AM
I just rewatched it. I had KFT and Akuma ready. I had two outs to Start Over and i think he was under double emptiness. His options were start over and then kft my kft, or double start over. Either way that means he has to get through akuma or it leaves him with 3 cards for the turn. Either is fine!

Well my point was with Start Over being at 6, he needed at least a 4 to pass it, with Ibuki's R it would need at least a 1, and then Akuma puts it at needing a printed 5 to tap out and pass it.

With Emptiness lock and the ever-present possibility of YWNE, something the deck seemed totally incapable of dealing with and slowing the deck's build down to a crawl, I would've said his single best option would be to just go for it and hope you didn't draw into a KFT yet, otherwise the game was a total writeoff anyway (hence the scoop when YRK hit).

He correctly assumed you had the KFT but sometimes you've just gotta go for it, you know?

SirShajir
08-26-2010, 09:12 AM
So you KFT his start over, so what, it's not like he doesn't run another 3 other start over and 4 infiltratings. And if you didn't have answer for it, he would have been better off cause you already YWNE'd him a couple of times and he would actually get to build against you.

But he was in a bad shape almost right off the bat.

failed2k
08-26-2010, 09:31 AM
Wait, if it was blank then how did you still get the foundation from it being destroyed? Unless it has somethin 2 do with some weird timing thing I don't get it...

You've actually got me there. I don't really know the ruling on blank Need to Destroy being destroyed. Me and Andrew have always played it like this(based on some REALLY old rulings)
Need to destroy is blank.
Need to destroy gets destroyed, it is no longer in play, therefore no longer blank
Static Abilities Check gets checked(since the check takes place post destruction resolving, the destruction has to be resolved before it checks, otherwise you could use summoning evil to prevent the foundation from being destroyed to create foundations in conjunction with need to destroys static)
Place facedown foundation.

I think that's how it works, but I could very well be wrong.
So you've got me there, me and Andrew kind of house ruled it so we didn't have to ask a rulings question during the world championship finals, kind of a testament to how much we have played each other making anything feel not so tense.

SMazzurco
08-26-2010, 10:27 AM
You've actually got me there. I don't really know the ruling on blank Need to Destroy being destroyed. Me and Andrew have always played it like this(based on some REALLY old rulings)
Need to destroy is blank.
Need to destroy gets destroyed, it is no longer in play, therefore no longer blank
Static Abilities Check gets checked(since the check takes place post destruction resolving, the destruction has to be resolved before it checks, otherwise you could use summoning evil to prevent the foundation from being destroyed to create foundations in conjunction with need to destroys static)
Place facedown foundation.

I think that's how it works, but I could very well be wrong.
So you've got me there, me and Andrew kind of house ruled it so we didn't have to ask a rulings question during the world championship finals, kind of a testament to how much we have played each other making anything feel not so tense.

The problem is the static says "If this foundation is destroyed" and by the time the text is back, the foundation has ALREADY been destroyed. Maniacal/NtD, etc do not trigger their statics when blank. (this has been asked in Q&A i think but no search is no search)

Edit: Found it http://forums.jascogames.com/forums/showthread.php?464-No-Forgiveness-Maniacal-Laughter

Edit again: Just want to point out i'm saying this cause of nat's coming up, etc. I could see how it could come across as kind of pretentious...

Shinguyi
08-26-2010, 11:03 AM
Looking at "Emptiness" on the staging area makes me wonder if Jasco Games will re-release Foundations of Power someday, or a new version of them.

failed2k
08-26-2010, 11:09 AM
The problem is the static says "If this foundation is destroyed" and by the time the text is back, the foundation has ALREADY been destroyed. Maniacal/NtD, etc do not trigger their statics when blank. (this has been asked in Q&A i think but no search is no search)

Edit: Found it http://forums.jascogames.com/forums/showthread.php?464-No-Forgiveness-Maniacal-Laughter

Edit again: Just want to point out i'm saying this cause of nat's coming up, etc. I could see how it could come across as kind of pretentious...

Danke for that, wasn't a big deal in the situation, but better to play it proper later down the road, but I do think that the ruling is a little weird, because if it trigger as the foundation attempts to leave play, but hasn't yet, then "when destroyed" effects would trigger even if the destruction attempt is somehow negated(like with summoning evil or Killer Android).

Wrong place for this anyways, Thanks for that.

Da_ghetto_gamer
08-26-2010, 02:10 PM
Danke for that, wasn't a big deal in the situation, but better to play it proper later down the road, but I do think that the ruling is a little weird, because if it trigger as the foundation attempts to leave play, but hasn't yet, then "when destroyed" effects would trigger even if the destruction attempt is somehow negated(like with summoning evil or Killer Android).

Wrong place for this anyways, Thanks for that.

Yeah after rewatching the video it wouldnt have mattered either way but i was just curious as to if thats how it worked or not...Its good to know now how it actually works though....everyone makes mistakes we can only learn from them and move on

RockStar
08-26-2010, 02:47 PM
You've actually got me there. I don't really know the ruling on blank Need to Destroy being destroyed. Me and Andrew have always played it like this(based on some REALLY old rulings)
Need to destroy is blank.
Need to destroy gets destroyed, it is no longer in play, therefore no longer blank
Static Abilities Check gets checked(since the check takes place post destruction resolving, the destruction has to be resolved before it checks, otherwise you could use summoning evil to prevent the foundation from being destroyed to create foundations in conjunction with need to destroys static)
Place facedown foundation.

I think that's how it works, but I could very well be wrong.
So you've got me there, me and Andrew kind of house ruled it so we didn't have to ask a rulings question during the world championship finals, kind of a testament to how much we have played each other making anything feel not so tense.

Actually, this is why i asked about the 'misplay' in the first place. I saw that Andrew committed Memories of a Nightmare and pointed at NtD. You moved NtD to the side so you wouldn't forget it was blank. Then you popped NtD and got another foundation, and i was like, "Wha--?".

ATLDrew
08-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Well my point was with Start Over being at 6, he needed at least a 4 to pass it, with Ibuki's R it would need at least a 1, and then Akuma puts it at needing a printed 5 to tap out and pass it.

With Emptiness lock and the ever-present possibility of YWNE, something the deck seemed totally incapable of dealing with and slowing the deck's build down to a crawl, I would've said his single best option would be to just go for it and hope you didn't draw into a KFT yet, otherwise the game was a total writeoff anyway (hence the scoop when YRK hit).

He correctly assumed you had the KFT but sometimes you've just gotta go for it, you know?

Sure. He should have went for it. I mean at worst I burn a KFT. Im not arguing. All I'm saying is I was holding KFT and that a Start Over there wouldn't have really done a whole lot. I just had one of my best openers of the whole tournament in that match.

@Shajir- His start over actually would have left me in a better position. He starts over, R's with Ibuki (3 cards in hand). Let's say i KFT and he has another 1. He can build at best 2 foundations. I start my turn and draw 7. Chances are my build is going to be MUCH better than his on my next turn. Like i told Tag though I'm just saying i had the answer to start over. Scott's option were try to rush me a little bit before i drew OS or try to blow up the world and get put right back behind. It was just a really good draw for me. Nothing against Scott's plays. That's just an overwhelming board position.