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Thread: Tips for a deadlier kill turn. A ufs article.

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    Regular Member toysoldyours's Avatar
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    Tips for a deadlier kill turn. A ufs article.

    Tips and Tricks: Kill Turns

    Hello one and all. Today I'm here to talk to you about kill turns - the turn of the game where you intentionally defeat your opponent. However, due to the massive number of scenarios and possibilities in UFS, it's almost impossible to present an "X is better than Y" argument. So this post will explore concepts, self-awareness, and some healthy tips on how to make kill turns more killer.

    Tip 1: Know Your Poke

    Every good deck has one or more decent poke attacks - something you can throw in front of a build turn to soften the opponent up a bit. Throws are a very popular choice among new players as they have a high chance to always deal damage. The main purpose of a poke is to put your opponent into the 'range' of your kill. For maximum efficiency, make sure your pokes do a good job of getting the numbers your deck needs.

    Pokes can serve another function aside from damage. In some situations you may be able to bait the use of a "consumable" foundation or resource. This can be essential if that resource may stop a later kill attempt.

    There are a few things to be wary of in regards to pokes. Reversal decks are not to be poked! They function best when poked. Wait for them to make a mistake before making an attempt. Secondly, don't poke your opponent into desperation if they play anything with a desperation ability. It takes mere seconds to look through their discard as check the game state. Also be aware of what they can do to bring themselves into desperation and take that into account as well. Poke safely, and poke smart.



    Tip 2: Know Your Range

    Range is the damage output you are consistently able to put out for a kill. Range type, refers to where you get your range from and if it scales. Let me explain.

    If the only damage pump in your deck comes from your character, your range can only scale with your attack output, namely the number of attacks you can string in any given turn. In this type, card draw and a method to keep chaining cards can help increase your range.

    If your pump comes from foundations, your range will scale as you build, slowly increasing each turn. Obviously in this type, aggressive build increases range.

    If you have no pump and rely solely on attacks, you rely heavily on getting more cards and maintaining the ability to keep playing them.

    Range is important. Once you get a feel for what your range is at a given turn. You can more accurately poke, without over committing resources that could better be used to defend with. It is also important to remember how dynamic your range can be.

    When facing a late game deck, it's good to know if you are capable of rushing them down before they get too set up. Alternatively, when facing an early game aggro deck , it's good to know if you can focus on defense, and kill them with one big kill turn later on in the game. Awareness of your own possible damage output makes formulating a plan on the fly a lot easier.

    Tip 3: Know Your Delivery System - Jumping Over Walls

    So now you understand pokes and have a basic idea of your damage output. But that is all useless if your opponent can zone change and chain block like a boss. A successful kill turn not only needs the right amount of damage, but also a strong delivery system.

    A delivery system is essentially your deck’s method for getting past wall cards and blocks. There are piles of walls and an equal amount of answers, and it's kind of up to you to figure out what you need.

    For example, if you play all low zone attacks, a zone changer of your own could help if they keep changing your attacks to mid. Stun chains, discard mechanics, targeted committal and ability negation are all different types of delivery methods. Raw speed can also be effective if you bring answers for speed reduction.

    The sky's the limit for delivery systems, but it's important to bring a system that supports your attack style. I'm sure you could write an encyclopedia on what cards do the best job of countering other said cards. But the easiest way to learn is to playtest. Every turn, look at the game state and think to yourself, "Boy, I wish I had 'X' right now" or "Boy, 'Y' is stinking useless". Take note. It doesn't take long to find a system that suits your play style.

    A few decks excel at creating walls. And it's important to be able to see when you can't play around it all. You 'could' say that you simply don't play as strong of a late game as said deck. Or you could realize that preventing the late game in the first place is your strongest anti wall strategy. Applying pressure before the walls go up can often be enough to ensure they never go up at all. The real key however, is not letting your opponent get to where they are strongest. All while trying to get yourself to where you are strongest, and most able to deal with the obstacles at hand.

    Tip 4: Know Your Limits - Avoid Overextending

    Want to know the easiest way to kill a new player? Wait until they make a math error and backswing for game.

    This isn't really how to make an effective kill, but more how to not get killed following a failed kill attempt.

    Pull out your ideal kill turn attacks and lay them out as if you were playing them. Now add up the difficulty of each attack and figure out the minimum number of resources you have to commit to pass them. Then, if you run about 17 attacks in your deck, assume you will check a 3 on 1/3 or 1/4 of your cards played. That will require 2 more resources from your staging area in most cases.

    Ask yourself the question, "Can my staging area and hand keep me alive if I use up that many resources?" Also ask yourself, "At what point do I abandon my attempt to ensure my survival?"

    You should have awareness of your own deck, and actually understand your difficulty ramp on your attacks. Actually know the ideal number of foundations needed to make a kill attempt. Actually realize that on top of resources to play cards, you will need methods of delivery to ensure attacks land. Oftentimes a subpar attack does a better job of filling your decks needs than another "kill" card does.

    The primary byproduct of over committing is the infamous backswing. A basic backswing involves maximizing punishment to an over extended opponent . It's a solid strategy to use against reversal decks, as it forces them to play out o their norm and takes advantage of their weakened resource pool.



    In closing:
    Kill turns are something of an art. It's one thing to kill with a barrage of attacks that you hope will land. But it's a whole new thing to land a decisive strike well planned in advance. Your attacks are a tool to bring you victory, and with a little practice. You can hone your use of that tool. There is so much more to attacking than just numbers. I urge you to explore your attack design and learn as much as you can about your own deck. The first step to overcoming your opponent is to know what you yourself are capable of.
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    Regular Member toysoldyours's Avatar
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    Senior Member wafflecopter's Avatar
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    Nice article! You tackled big ideas and broke them up into consumable chunks well. But I think the scope ended up a bit too broad. Broadly speaking "kill turn" means playing to try to reach a point where you'll win, for sure, this turn - definitely agree so far. Constructing your deck to have a kill turn is one approach, and it's generally successful -- I think there are interesting, obvious-but-not-really reasons why (like lower risk, easier reasoning, no untap/draw step between attacks). But it's not the only way to play, and as you briefly touch upon, there are even different flavors of kill turn (backswing, combo, outbuild).

    I think you did a big disservice to the topic when you jumped into pokes as your first topic though -- the whole point of kill turns is, you don't need to poke first! You say "Every good deck has one or more decent poke attacks" -- I mean, I'd rather play the game where this is true, but a decklist with "3x Concealed Shallow Swipe" written on it is probably (a) very good (b)not going to poke. Similarly, if I'm playing Kim, the kick loop backed up with Holiday Cheer and a 25-card staging area can easily make 11 4H6 attacks, and I'm pretty sure I won't need to poke before I do that to someone.

    Also, on avoiding the backswing -- in an article about kill turns? The solution to backswings is "do your math right the first time" and build a lethal deck. That advice doesn't help you when your opponent's wall is too tall to scale in one turn, or when you're going in on turn 2 and need to flip 5-5-5-5 to win... but those are situations, you're not in a "kill turn", you're using a different strategy.
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    Regular Member toysoldyours's Avatar
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    Hahaha thanks Kevin for the feedback . As you know, kill turns is such a massive topic, it's difficult to try and put in a way that can be easily digested and still be relevant to brand new players. I laid it out the way I did as to bring the most awareness to ones own deck that I could.

    You are right in saying that many decks can work without pokes, but a poke is a function , not a card. And their function is to put an opponent into reach of your kill. If your kill reach is more than enough to kill a full health 6 hander, then ya, the function of a poke is no longer needed. But even the Kim deck you mentioned can use it's regular attacks to present a poke in order to bait cards like orders from Heidern or brilliant tactician.

    And for sure I needed to add a section on over extending. For all the reasons you stated. The math needs to be done, and it often isn't. It's good warning for newer players.
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    Senior Member dutpotd's Avatar
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    I think poking is as much a part of succeeding at a kill turn as the turn itself, depending on the deck you are playing you may rely on or at least be strongly encouraged to poke as a pre-requisite to arriving at a kill turn, whether it be to gain momentum or otherwise. Since it is a broad article it can't leave out all decks that aren't capable of constructing One-Turn-Kills.

    That said, the kill turn itself is the exact opposite of poking, as is needing to avoid a backswing. I think the reason they are included in the article is to point out that in order to arrive at the kill turn you have to be aware of and exclude what isn't a kill turn, i.e. arriving at a kill turn as a process of elimination.

    I like the article as it asks you to reflect on and know your own deck's limits, goals, and strategy to arrive at the end of a game = the eventual kill turn.
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    Senior Member ATLPiglet's Avatar
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    Damn good Article
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    Regular Member 'Caz Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wafflecopter View Post
    I think you did a big disservice to the topic when you jumped into pokes as your first topic though -- the whole point of kill turns is, you don't need to poke first! You say "Every good deck has one or more decent poke attacks" -- I mean, I'd rather play the game where this is true, but a decklist with "3x Concealed Shallow Swipe" written on it is probably (a) very good (b)not going to poke. Similarly, if I'm playing Kim, the kick loop backed up with Holiday Cheer and a 25-card staging area can easily make 11 4H6 attacks, and I'm pretty sure I won't need to poke before I do that to someone.
    I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, but you can't possibly believe that the majority of standard UFS decks function in this way.

    Most decks do not want to attempt to to kill an opponent from full vitality without having some kind of massive advantage (See: backswinging). Chipping an opponent is just as much part of killing them as the final combination as most decks simply aren't capable of getting the card advantage and board positioning to consistently snipe an opponent from full life.

    Examples of this would be Joe Hill, Iori1, VGrey. Sure, they can do it. But how often do they actually pull it off?
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    Regular Member Onslaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Caz Simon View Post
    I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, but you can't possibly believe that the majority of standard UFS decks function in this way.

    Most decks do not want to attempt to to kill an opponent from full vitality without having some kind of massive advantage (See: backswinging). Chipping an opponent is just as much part of killing them as the final combination as most decks simply aren't capable of getting the card advantage and board positioning to consistently snipe an opponent from full life.

    Examples of this would be Joe Hill, Iori1, VGrey. Sure, they can do it. But how often do they actually pull it off?
    That's kind of how I feel. Any card game I've ever played I've tried to avoid complex kill combo's, because often all it takes is one or two pieces to break down and it falls apart. Although, if anyone can show me a deck that can consistently blast its way through 27 health in a turn I'd love to see it.

  9. #9
    Look at most air decks satoshi lilth mature iori 2 when he was legal huitzil. Its possible but blocking is the biggest reason why it doesn't happen namely cards like moon Templar and team k prevent the early rush down

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    Regular Member 'Caz Simon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onslaught View Post
    That's kind of how I feel. Any card game I've ever played I've tried to avoid complex kill combo's, because often all it takes is one or two pieces to break down and it falls apart. Although, if anyone can show me a deck that can consistently blast its way through 27 health in a turn I'd love to see it.
    Hyper late game decks can do this, but a large number of resources are committed to surviving to the point where the game can be won. worlds-era K', the latest iteration of all Phil Birch, and my hybrid Garett build from a year ago did this. However, every attack you land before your kill turn removes a significant amount of risk in doing so, to the point that it's not realistic to simply never attack until that point.
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