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Thread: Takeda's Third Ability

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    Scout Vanguard's Avatar
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    Takeda's Third Ability

    I was wondering whether Takeda's third E only gave the "Combo E" ability or also gives the Combo (X) keyword ability?

    Thanks for your answers!

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    Senior Member dutpotd's Avatar
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    E Discard the top card of your deck: Your attack gains all Combo abilities printed on the discarded card.


    So what is a 'Combo ability'? Believe it or not, the only place where the specific term 'Combo ability or Combo abilities' are referred to in the LGR are under Played abilities when discussing their restrictions.

    H.3.1.2 "Combo" - The ability may not be played unless the conditions laid out in the card's Combo keyword ability are met. (see I.3.3)
    H.3.1.2.1 - Playing one of these abilities classifies as playing a combo ability.
    H.3.1.2.2 - All references to combo abilities refer to combo-restricted abilities.
    Note: If a card does not have the combo keyword ability, played abilities with the combo restriction cannot be played.

    However, the combo keyword is also an ability (not a played ability). So you could say, it is an ability, it is called combo, so it is a combo ability.

    I would argue that based on the bolded, since Takeda's E is referencing the gaining of all Combo abilities, it is saying it is gaining a combo-restricted ability. How can it gain a restricted ability without gaining the restriction (the keyword)?

    In other words, because it is gaining a combo-restricted ability, it is also gaining the restriction or keyword. I.e. yes, it would gain Combo F/E/R as a played ability and the combo (restriction, x, y, ...) keyword restriction.

    The other argument to make is the word All means any combo ability on the card, and cards with combo abilities always come with two combo abilities, the keyword ability and the played ability - both of them are combo abilities, combo keyword ability and combo played abilities are a subset of combo abilities.

    Obviously this isn't super clear, but there are multiple ways to interpret the LGR in a way that supports Takeda gaining the keyword ability combo and the played ability combo and 'All' meaning to direct you to know it gains both.
    "No, no, not by the hair on my chinny chin Chin."

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    Scout Vanguard's Avatar
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    Alright, that seems logical enough.

    Now I have another question, is each Combo-restricted ability linked to its original Combo keyword ability ? Or is it possible to play, say, Critical Split's Combo-restricted ability when only Takeda's attack much easier Combo requirement (like Combo (Attack)) is fullfilled?

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    Senior Member dutpotd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Alright, that seems logical enough.

    Now I have another question, is each Combo-restricted ability linked to its original Combo keyword ability ? Or is it possible to play, say, Critical Split's Combo-restricted ability when only Takeda's attack much easier Combo requirement (like Combo (Attack)) is fullfilled?
    That's a great question, if an attack has two combo keywords and two combo enhances do they mess with one another?

    I.3.3.2 Combo (the keyword) grants the ability "Played abilities on this card that have a combo restriction may not be played unless the printed values of the card(s) immediately preceding this card in the card pool match the requirement(s) listed after the Combo keyword granting this ability, in order if applicable."

    Because of the last bold there I believe you have to keep them straight. Each combo played ability has a matching Combo keyword granting that ability.
    "No, no, not by the hair on my chinny chin Chin."

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    Alright, thanks for your time and your answer!

  6. #6
    I'm having a hard time finding it but it has been stated somewhere on FB by Shane (I believe) that Takeda's 3rd ability will only give the Combo E/F/R part of a card and not the actual restriction part.

    I do like that if he did grant both of the abilities and then those abilites are locked together with the combo restriction it could pull some power from his kit. So no more Shirai Ryu Kan/Shirai Ryu Kan and just keep adding a Rekkashingeki on top and going infinite on attack loops.

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    dutpotd is actually incorrect here. Takeda only splices on the combo ability, not the restriction. It's been ruled this way since they handed out the foil MK characters at worlds and I immediately hounded Shane to explain how his ability works.

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    Senior Member dutpotd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
    dutpotd is actually incorrect here. Takeda only splices on the combo ability, not the restriction. It's been ruled this way since they handed out the foil MK characters at worlds and I immediately hounded Shane to explain how his ability works.
    No problem, I just tried my best based on the LGR. So it has a combo F/E/R but no restriction? As in, you can never play it or always play it (leaning latter obv)?

    In any case, I'd say they may need to update the LGR for it and/or put more words on Takeda because from my read of the LGR I'd argue there are two combo abilities on combo cards - the combo keyword ability (a continuous one), and the combo ability (the restricted one).
    "No, no, not by the hair on my chinny chin Chin."

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    Senior Member -OMB-'s Avatar
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    Basically it just copies any Combo E: <effect> and you can only play them if you added them to an attack that already has a combo (condition) on it. So if you add a combo E to an attack without combo it's unplayable, but if you add Tsurane Giri's combo E to any of his things with combo (attack) you can play it (presuming it's preceeded by an attack).

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    Alright. So, Takeda's even more flexible than I first thought...

    Thanks for all your answers !

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