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Thread: Our Legacy title...

  1. #11
    Senior Member Dillon's Avatar
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    I was just joking around.. You guys are so serious all the time.

  2. #12
    Member Zamora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillon View Post
    I was just joking around.. You guys are so serious all the time.
    pride is on the line, among other things probably
    2013 US Nats singles 10th place(1 month experience), teams undefeated 4-0
    Cali ptc 21st place
    Vegas ptc top 8
    2014 US Nats singles 10th place(1 year later lol), teams top 8, legacy diversified sagat 9-11th place
    Would not be possible if not for that a-hole magnusotls

  3. #13
    Scout Birch's Avatar
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    Last edited by Birch; 02-18-2013 at 09:49 AM.
    Oh, you think the 2 checks are your ally. But you merely adopted the 2s; I was born in them, moulded by them. I didn't see 3s until i was already a man, and by then they were nothing to me but BLINDING! The 2s betray you because they belong to me!
    Trade thread.
    http://forums.jascogames.com/forums/...3786#post83786

  4. #14
    Senior Member HypeMan!'s Avatar
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    I'm 'passive' about it because I just want to be done with it and move on. Personally, I might just be plugging my ears and hoping not to listen to it, but I just want to move forward and fix things from here on out. I think the other thing is, at this point, everyone has been screwed in one way or the other if they were at all involved with this: Jason and JascoGames, UFS community and tournaments in general, everyone present at Nats during the fiasco, Scott who's been dragged through the mud for a week now, and Tim and Garret who will have this blot hanging over their heads and the 2013 Nats Legacy title for ever. No one came out of this one unscathed, and still trying to place blame or criticize it farther is rubbing salt in an open wound.

    Birch, you my boy, you know that, and I won't say sh!t about your opinion or character, but I'd rather work towards a future than complain about the past.

    Bad sh!t happened, no one denies that, it was handled poorly, no one denies that. We're trying to mitigate damage and prevent it from ever happening again.
    The infinite hype machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by ATLDrew View Post
    Ya'll should be Team Emotional Rollercoaster. Thomas is super hype about everything, Syclic is super sad about everything, and Trips just says whatever the hell he is thinking.
    Trades

  5. #15
    Member Skys2high's Avatar
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    The thing is, it's not going to end here. It's going to be brought up again when the cards are released and it isn't something you should sweep under the rug. When mistakes are made you don't forget about them and move on, you build on them and learn from them but this goes beyond that. And this happens all the time with things like this, when something happens the community doesn't like, you just all complain about it until it's the way that you want things to be.
    Gencon 2012 KING OF FIGHTERS

  6. #16
    Senior Member vaporgecko's Avatar
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    As far as MTG is concerned, and in my opinion, Jason actually made the correct call given the circumstance. The problem was the timing in which the decklist was checked, and when the contents of the deck were checked.

    Having an improper deck and improper decklist in competetive/tournament should be a game loss (not a match loss!) penalty. The proper timing to call Scott's deck into question should have been between Rounds 1 and 2 of Swiss. Jasco and crew should have gone through all the decklists to check for legality during the 50 min. of Round 1, found the clerical error, then pulled Scott aside to check his physical deck. If the decklist is out of order, then Scott should have been penalized with a game loss in Round 2 of Swiss. If his physical deck was out of order, then he should have been penalized with an additional game loss in Round 2 of swiss (this could make it a match loss). Scott's opponent for round 2 would get a win, Scott would have had all of Round 2 to correctly provide a deck list and legal deck and could very well have gone on to win his way into top cuts (and likely would have), and there would have been no issue!

    We have to assume innocent until proven guilty in all these cases, therefore bringing down the ultimate penalty hammer on what could clearly be a clerical error would have been inappropriate. I'll be the first to admit I didn't like Jason's call at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought it was correct. The only unfortunate part is that all of this was not caught during Swiss where the issue could easily be resolved before any lasting damage to the tournament structure could occur.

    While checking EVERY deck by hand is ridiculous, I would propose that ALL the decklists must be checked in detail between registration and the end of Round 1, that random private deck checks be enforced, and that a deck check at the end of Swiss for top cuts as well as a final deck check immediately before top cuts be the norm.

    On this particular issue, I would have let the Jason ruling "in favor" of Scott playing stand. That being said, I think that the community can do a lot to make sure that the current ruling does not ruin the game, but rather sparks action in defining a tournament policy for penalties, truancy (on both the organizer and the players), and judging.
    Last edited by vaporgecko; 02-17-2013 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Clarity
    Updated 7/21 - VaporGecko's Trade Thread

    2015 PTC - Scott's Valley - Vicarious Champion - Skull Man1 piloted by Sal Mazzurco
    2015 PTC - Scott's Valley - Top 8 - Pharaoh Man1
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    2013 PTC - Scott's Valley - Top 4 - Nina Williams1
    2013 US Nats - Singles - Top 8 - Lu Chen2
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    2012 PTC - Scott's Valley - 2nd Place - Lu Chen2

  7. #17
    Scout Grizzlegrom's Avatar
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    There's a pretty to avoid this from happening... Don't cheat problem solved...

  8. #18
    Senior Member dutpotd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birch View Post
    No i just dont understand how people can be so passive about this.
    People aren't passive about this at all. Trips made an amazing post outlining a lot of what you have said in this thread already... Also, in 'that' thread many many people posted their thoughts on the issue. So saying people are passive about this is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

    I don't want to talk about this issue anymore, I already stated my list of facts and thoughts in another thread and that is all I have to give. If you haven't read them TLDR, timing issues suck but for gods sake it is better to have a finals a week later than no finals at all. Once sh1t has hit the fan all you can do is clean up, that is all I have tried to do.

    As far as Birch and I are concerned we have pm'd each other and will deal with it accordingly.

    Now, it is wrong to assume Jasco just conveniently took the fact I was travelling to face Tim as an opportunity to correct a poor decision made in another tournament.

    I am VERY CONFIDENT that if I didn't fly out East they 'would' have forfeited Scott anyways because they had reason to do so. I am not vouching for their reason to do so, I do not have the facts at hand, but if Jasco say they had reason to do DQ someone I have no other choice but to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    What their options would have been had I not been flying to Tim would have been the following:

    1. No winner of Legacy. I realize you see (or at least saw) this as an option. I do not. Many players paid to play in this tourney and spent countless hours playing it. There needed to be a winner.

    2. Tim is declared winner of Legacy. Quite frankly, I would have trouble with this one since the person that got DQ'd beat me... I think Tim would also have trouble with this...

    3. Tim and I play a match at a later date. Doesn't need to be a week later, it could be at worlds. It could be online. PEOPLE CAN BE FLEXIBLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

    Perhaps this is what I struggle with most. Bad stuff happened, yes. That is what happened in the past. What happens going forward can be good stuff. Good stuff includes people having patience and working hard towards a better outcome.

    It looks really good on our game that the owners have enough class to admit mistakes. It looks really good on our game that players have the desire to make good stuff happen despite the cost, effort, and patience required. Some players seem to be ignoring this in this and other threads and it bugs me a bit, not because I feel insulted but because I think these players are doing themselves a dis-service for not being realistic about both the good and the bad of a situation.

    We have the best gaming community in the world. I firmly believe that. It doesn't mean mistakes are never going to be made. Good people make bad decisions all the time. What separates them from the bad people is that good people work hard to make things better, good people are honest about their problems, and good people make sacrifices to the benefit of other people (they are not selfish).

    I know people think I misunderstand 'what our game looks like' to outsiders. I can assure you I do not. And I can assure you that no matter what someone 'thinks' about me or the game I play all that matters is that I do my best and see the results of that when I see another person growing and enjoying their time with me and the game of UFS.
    Last edited by dutpotd; 02-18-2013 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Corrections carried forward
    "No, no, not by the hair on my chinny chin Chin."

  9. #19
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  10. #20
    Scout Birch's Avatar
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    There can be only one.
    Oh, you think the 2 checks are your ally. But you merely adopted the 2s; I was born in them, moulded by them. I didn't see 3s until i was already a man, and by then they were nothing to me but BLINDING! The 2s betray you because they belong to me!
    Trade thread.
    http://forums.jascogames.com/forums/...3786#post83786

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